Bounce Back from Burnout w/ Dr. Mary Sanders -27

December 20, 2022 Shawna Rodrigues / Dr. Mary Sanders Season 1 Episode 27
Bounce Back from Burnout w/ Dr. Mary Sanders -27
Show Notes Transcript

Depending on which researcher you look at, approximately 50% of our population is experiencing burnout. This is one of many gems we learned from Dr. Mary on today’s episode. It’s also one that might help you realize you aren’t alone.
Dr. Mary shares with us the 3 pronged approach to looking at the areas we may experience burnout. This is extremely beneficial in helping us understand our options in addressing it and knowing where we need to start.
Dr. Mary also shared some great assessment tools, as well as a technique that resonated with me and hopefully will resonate with you.
 Deep in the throes of the holidays; looking towards the new year, it’s timely to talk about burnout and look at how it may be affecting your well being. Whether you work in a helping profession such as the medical field, social work, or education, or have other factors that have you or someone you care about teetering on the edge of burnout; it’s valuable to assess where you are at and gain tools to get you and your well being in a better place. 
Dr. Mary has over 25+ years of experience as a self-employed businesswoman and consultant … AND 15 years ago, she experienced burnout firsthand and crashed hard! At the time, she didn’t have the necessary tools or resources to navigate the difficult period in her life, so she panicked and ran away to the other side of the world. Now, she is wholeheartedly committed to supporting women who want to transform the way they show up in this world and experience thriving health, happiness, and purpose, utilizing the tools of energy medicine, chiropractic, functional blood chemistry analysis, and positive psychology.
Dr. Mary earned her doctorate in Chiropractic from Logan College of Chiropractic in St. Louis, MO. She completed her Certificate in Positive Psychology from the Wholebeing Institute in Lennox, MA and studied under Dr. Tal Ben Shahar. In addition, she completed her Masters in Intuition Medicine® from the Academy of Intuition Medicine® in Sausalito, CA and studied under Dr. Francesca McCartney.

“In fact, I would love for people to listen to their bodies more. Period... The body is communicating to you in ways that you can't even imagine.”
-Dr. Mary Sanders

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Resources we mentioned in today's episode:
Maslach Burnout Inventory

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Quote: “In fact, I would love for people to listen to their bodies more. period. Listen to your body more because the body is communicating to you in ways that you can't even imagine. So if we can slow down and minimize the distraction that we have in our environment and really spend some introspective time in silence or reflection.” -Dr. Mary Sanders


Episode title: Bounce Back from Burnout with Dr. Mary Sanders

Episode Timeline:


[00:00:57] Introducing Dr. Mary Sanders

[00:03:47] 50% of the population experiences burnout

[00:05:17] Burnout can manifest physically in a variety of different ways.

[00:08:16] Three Pronged approach of looking at burnout

[00:20:33] Five-month program designed to help people bounce back from burnout. 

[00:31:50] Balancing our system

[00:36:27] Steps in recognizing burnout






[00:00:00] Mary: So it's unfortunate because still to this day, I believe in the power of the service of being a chiropractor or an energetic healer. But now, I understand the importance of energetic boundaries so that I can still be of service and support others. But I'm not giving my energy away so I know how to establish a better energetic boundary so that I don't become burnt out. 


[00:00:27] Shawna: Welcome to the Grit Show - Growth on Purpose. I'm your host, Shawna Rodrigues, and I'm happy to be here with you as your guide for all of us growing together as seekers and thrivers. Dr. Mary has over 25 years of experience as a self-employed businesswoman and a consultant, and 15 years ago she experienced burnout firsthand and crashed hard.  At the time, she didn't have the necessary tools or resources to navigate this difficult period of her life, so she panicked and ran away to the other side of the world. 


[00:01:05] Shawna: Now, she's wholeheartedly committed to supporting women who want to transform the way they show up in this world and experience thriving health, happiness, and purpose, utilizing the tools of energy medicine, chiropractic, functional blood chemistry analysis, and positive psychology.


[00:01:23] Shawna: Dr. Mary earned her doctorate in chiropractic from Logan College of Chiropractic in St. Louis, Missouri. She completed her certificate and passed psychology from the Whole Bean Institute in Lennox, Mass, and studied under Dr. Tal Ben Shahar. In addition, she completed her Master's in Intuition Medicine from the Academy of Intuition Medicine and Sausalito, California, and studied under Dr. Francesca McCartney. 


[00:01:47] Shawna: We are so glad to have her and all of this wisdom with us today. Welcome, Dr. Mary


[00:01:52] Mary: Sincerely, Shawna, it is my honor to be here with you today. Before we get started, can I just sing your praises a little bit? 



[00:02:01] Shawna: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that . 


[00:02:06] Mary: Yeah, and you know, I was thinking about it this morning in the industry of podcasting alone, only 30% are women,


[00:02:14] Shawna: 27%, but yes, I know it's ridiculous.


[00:02:18] Mary: It's very low. And so your voice is making such a positive impact for the industry as a whole. But specifically for your listeners, and as you talk about grit, I mean, you are a walking example. I mean, you are a living, breathing, female, showing perseverance and resilience and get-to - stick-to-itness and just being present for all the various different guests such as myself, that show up on the show, that get an audience to be able to speak their authentic truth as well. So I just have to say thank you so much. 


[00:02:54] Shawna: Oh, Dr. Mary, that means a lot. I appreciate that authenticity and be able to share this information to my audience is really important to me, so I really appreciate you bringing attention to that. That means a lot. Thank you. Genuinely appreciate you for doing that. That's wonderful.


[00:03:09] Mary: You're very welcome. It's the truth, and you have experience behind you and under your belt, so I'm so thankful. 


[00:03:16] Shawna: Thank you. Well, that is wonderful. Yeah. Well, this is one way to combat burnout is to have amazing people who recognize yours. Thank you. It's a good place to start.


[00:03:24] Mary: You're right. We do need to surround ourselves with more, positive influence. I think that is one of the positive psychology tools that we have available for us when it comes to overcoming and sustaining burnout. Burnout is so common. Shawna, I can't even begin to tell you. Depending upon the researcher that you listen to or you read. we're looking at, at least 50% of the population is experiencing burnout at any given time. It's prevalent. 


[00:03:53] Shawna: Wow. Yes,


[00:03:55] Mary: It's absolutely prevalent and it's even more so since the pandemic in this era that we're calling the Great Resignation, where people are waking up and saying, no more, no more am I going to tolerate the limitations within our corporate America. No more am I going to sacrifice my wellbeing and my health and my mental state for the sake of a job. For the sake of a paycheck. I mean, obviously, you know, we all get to work for income, to be able to sustain our lives. I'm not saying that everybody should quit their job, but I think that people are redefining what that means for them. 


[00:04:30] Shawna: Yes. And I think it is important to start questioning that and to start to recognize it. This is so much of our lives and so much of our time that we need to pay attention to how we are doing it in a way that can also replenish and be joyful and good for us instead of just something that completely drains us. And I think that being able to examine that is important. So with your work, obviously, you work with a lot of individuals experiencing burnout. Can you talk more about how people even start to recognize that they're experiencing burnout? 


[00:04:57] Mary: So my formal training as a chiropractor for the last 28 years, dealing with the physical body as intimately as I do, stress and burnout can manifest. Physically in a variety of different ways. So, you know, we can talk about how some of the physical signs of exhaustion or frequent illnesses or perhaps the compromised immune system, maybe they're even showing up, you know, having blood sugar imbalances or adrenal system that are out of whack.


[00:05:30] Mary: But I see, and I have felt the emotional signs of burnout as well. So you know, when people are experiencing a lack of self-worth or they're experiencing helplessness or loneliness, those are some of the signs that lead up to the isolation with people that are experiencing burnout. Yeah. So, you know, we talk about the three prong approach, the physical signs, the emotional signs, the behavioral signs, it's a plethora of symptoms and signs that people demonstrate when they're going through burnout.  


[00:06:04] Shawna: Yes. So is it one place that it starts or it varies for everyone if they start to feel it more emotionally or physically or where they start to see it more? 


[00:06:12] Mary: You know what, that's such a great question, Shawna, and I don't think I've ever had anybody ask me that. So I don't know if I have read any research that clinically says this is where starts, I think from a holistic paradigm. I think it's based upon the individual and where their weaknesses or stressors lie. 



[00:06:32] Shawna: Yes. Yeah, that makes sense. I remember that my, I had a sibling that when they were younger, they felt like their stomach, they would get stomach aches and I always felt that that's where their stresses were. They would get stomach aches and I was somebody who I was prone to headaches and later in life to migraines. I feel like that's where my stress would first manifest was with that. So I feel like we each have our own points in our bodies where we start to feel things and sometimes our bodies are what we listen to the most. So that's where we kind of recognize things the most.


[00:06:57] Mary: Yes. In fact, I would love for people to listen to their bodies more, period. Listen to your body more because the body is communicating to you in ways that you can't even imagine. So if we can slow down and minimize the distraction that we have in our environment and really spend some in introspective time in silence or reflection Then I think that we can really watch what's happening mentally and physically to look for those signs and so that we can be a little bit more proactive versus being reactive in the long term.


[00:07:32] Shawna: Yes, exactly. And to recognize that, that is our body trying to tell us something instead of something else we need to ignore in life to keep pushing through.

Sometimes I worry with a definition of grit that some people interpret it as the need to ignore and push through instead of it actually not being that. So it's important to have these conversations to help people listen to themselves and why we have experts like you that can come on to talk about how we need to be listening to our bodies a little bit more in understanding what is trying to tell us.


[00:08:01]Shawna: So what are the three pronged definitions of burnout when you are at work and you're doing that? Like what are, we talked a little bit about that when you and I were speaking before the show started. Can you talk more about that pronged definition of burnout when you're at work and trying to decide if that's what you're experiencing.


[00:08:16] Mary: Yeah, so I have to share with you that I went through my own professional burnout and it led to a personal and physical issue for me. So my interest was kind of self-serving to really identify what is burnout. It's kind of a waste. Basket of a definition, it's kind of like saying, oh, I have chronic fatigue syndrome, or I'm just stressed. I mean, those are really broad general diagnoses. And so upon diving into the literature a little bit more, I found. What is called the Mass Lock Burnout Inventory, and if you Google it, you can find this survey online. And what's really nice is that this researcher has looked at three different areas of burnout to help clinically define the level of burnout and where it actually exists.


[00:09:07] Mary: And this is such an effective tool that a lot of different HR industries within corporate America is using this inventory to better identify where the person is burnout so that they can make it specific to treatment specific for them to assist them in getting over burnout opposed to losing them as an employee.


[00:09:28] Shawna: Oh, that's amazing. I'm so glad it's being utilized and recognized as a way to support and address it. That's incredible. 


[00:09:35] Mary: Absolutely. And so what this researcher has done is she has said, clearly stated that there are three different components in the definition of burnout, and the first is quite obviously everybody can say, whoa, okay, there's exhaustion. So there's emotional and physical exhaustion. She agrees with that. Then she talks about cynicism and cynicism is the second branch of burnout, and it talks about a person feeling pessimistic or cynical about working in their position or the organization as a whole. So if somebody is distrusting of the organization or distrusting of their superior or distrusting of their team, then that affects their disposition and they can then become burnt out.


[00:10:24] Shawna: Yes.


[00:10:24] Mary: The third component, which I think is brilliant, is that she talks about professional efficacy. And efficacy is not efficiency. It's not how fast you can do your job, but efficacy is the ability in this skillset to do the job that has been assigned to you within the parameters of the leadership. 


[00:1:46] Mary: So you know, you can say, let's say you've been in an industry for 20 or 30 years and you develop this skillset that you know is that you are capable of doing this job.

But if you're in a certain level of limitation where somebody, your boss or superior is saying you have to do it a certain way, that's going to perhaps hinder your ability to do the job, which leads into and adds to burnout. 


[00:11:15] Mary: So we have emotional exhaustion. We have cynicism and professional efficacy. So she tests those three components individually. So obviously as a person who's taking the test, you could score, you know, low scores on all three of 'em, on all three categories, and you clearly are in a state of burnout and, or you could just be a strong negative score within the exhaustion component only.


[00:11:45] Mary: And that just means that your plum overextended. You just overextended and it could be over extended at work. You could be over extended at home. You could be over extended in other areas of your life. So perhaps that person needs more time off. Maybe that person needs a nap in the middle of the day. Maybe that person needs a four day work week. Who knows? 


[00:12:08] Mary: So you can see where this is going. So let's say somebody shows up and they just have a low score in cynicism that just shows up as the person being disengaged. 


[00:12:18] Shawna: Yes. And a lot of the conversations right now are just about the disengagement, but it actually could be any of those components.


[00:12:24] Mary: Right. And so then if you're like, "Oh, I've got a person that disengaged," because they don't work well within their team, or they don't like their superior, or they are having some level of distrust, would we be able to main this employee if we put them with a different leader with a different group. So then they can say, "Okay, we're trying to problem solve this." Opposed to you saying I blanket this person's burnout. We just need to let them go or to be able to support them as an individual. Last but not least in the area of professional efficacy. If somebody just put scores negatively within this one parameter, then they just feel ineffective. It's like their work just doesn't matter.


[00:13:07] Mary: Even though they have their skillset of doing it, what are they working towards? What's the bigger picture? Are they in alignment with the purpose of the organization? So I like this inventory and I think it's a really effective tool to really helping a person identify which areas that they are falling a week with them.


[00:13:28] Shawna: Yes. And I also wonder, like I had this conversation with a couple friends, so my way, way back background is social work and I'd moved into more administrative and leadership roles and done different things, but in these helping professions, and I think that also goes in the medical field in different areas when your job is helping others and teachers, and different things that sometimes you're burnout like you feel guilty for being burned out because you came in to help people and so you feel guilty when you are feeling that drain. 


[00:13:57] Shawna: And like it's harder to like admit that the efficacy piece especially. You aren't able to be effective because you are completely drained, you are not able to see this and you're feeling. Then you start to feel the negative pieces where you start to have the cynicism that comes next. I feel like they follow each other, they start to have the cynicism and you have a hard time seeing it 'cuz you don't wanna be that person. You don't wanna feel that way. And so it's harder to feel that renowned, to understand that something needs to change cuz you are in such a bad place cuz you don't wanna be there.


[00:14:25] Shawna: You came into this field and you do this work because you love it. And you loved helping people, but sometimes the systems, the world at large with a pandemic, like different things have just gotten you to a place where it's just too much or you work in a field. I have friends that work in hospice. I have friends that work in hospitals, and it can just be really hard to see that time and time again what's happening with people.


[00:14:49] Shawna: And it can, it can result in that. And if you don't address it, it just keeps getting worse and keeps taking a toll on you. 


[00:14:54] Mary: Shawna, I have to share with you, this researcher. you hit it, right? You hit the topic and their industry, right?


[00:15:00] Shawna: Yes


[00:15:01] Mary: On the head. And that she has a specific survey for those in healthcare.

And she has a specific survey for those in education. So I agree with you experientially. I can honestly say that, obviously, when I was making the decision as to what I wanted to do professionally, I wanted to be of service. I wanted to be of service to other people and I happened to have been blessed with a good set of hands.


[00:15:25] Mary:  And so, I knew that chiropractic was my avenue, but I am here to tell you that because of the demands and the pace at which my business grew, I was burnt out in 10 years. And I was flatlined in 15 years. So it's unfortunate because I still, to this day, I believe in the power of the service of being a chiropractor or an energetic healer.


[00:15:48] Mary: But now, now I understand the importance of energetic boundaries so that I can still be of service and support others, but I'm not giving my energy away. 


[00:15:59] Shawna: Yes. 


[00:16:00] Mary: So I know how to establish a better energetic boundary so that I don't become burnt out. 


[00:16:05] Shawna: Yes. And they don't teach you how to provide.


[00:16:09] Mary: No, they don't.



[00:16:10] Shawna: Burnout and how to take care of yourself. And if anything, they push you and push you and  push you and get you burned out sooner. And so there's all these amazing professionals who are just done and then they are causing challenges in the field instead of helping the field, even though they're these great gifts to the field for so long because they are burnt out and they don't wanna be a hindrance.


[00:16:28] Shawna: But they are just because they've drained themselves so much that they can't give like they used to. And yes, it's so hard and I mean that's why I'm no longer in my field as well. I got burnt out as well. So like that, that does happen. It is a thing. And so being able to recognize it sooner and address it sooner and taking steps to support it, it's a big thing. So this is a big important conversation. 


[00:16:53] Mary: You know, I agree with you. I wish that all service industries were taught an energy technique that I learned at the Academy of Intuition Medicine, and it's so simple to do that. I think that if people could just take a few minutes at the end of the day and collectively, in a grounded state, connect energetically to those people that they were of service that day and give back any and all energy that you may have exchanged that day. And then the crucial step is to receive the energy that is rightfully yours, back into your energy system. 


[00:17:30] Mary: And then that way you literally can mutually separate from those groups of people that you were of service to that day, and that you still reclaim the energy, your life force energy that you know and that you depend on for your longevity returns back to you. 


[00:17:48] Shawna: That's beautiful. 


[00:17:49] Mary: So then you can go home. It's a beautiful technique. And so you can go home in the evening and then be more full of yourself, which enables you to be more present for your loved ones. And it's unfortunate because when you give as much energy as we do in the service industry, that when we go home to the people that mean the most to us, we don't have the energy to be able to exchange with them.


[00:18:13] Mary: Neutral separation is the name of that technique. That is something that I teach all of my clients and my patients how to do because it's so easy and so effective. 


[00:18:24] Shawna: Yes, and I wonder even about my friends who are mothers and like that, how much you give to your children and to your family and for life. I think of my dad sometimes how much he gets to my siblings still, and they're adults. That like this piece of being able to separate and give that energy back, that there is that separation. Even just that mental piece of like recognizing that this is what I need to take back. This is where we're at, and this is the boundaries of those pieces in doing that. That is beautiful and important. Dr. Mary, that is so valuable. I really appreciate that.  


[00:18:58] Mary: And the key word that you just said there, Shawna, was boundary. And I think boundaries are healthy and somewhere, somehow in the service industry, they teach us because we are there to be of service and to care for another person, that we really have no boundaries. And I think that is to our detriment. 


[00:19:16] Shawna: Yes. 


[00:19:17] Mary: Absolutely. 


[00:19:18] Shawna: Yes. And that's no way.. That's how we all get burnt out so quickly. And I wonder, I wish there could be surveys that people did like every year where they were at and how quickly that inventory would slide down. And I really think that 10 years, is probably about the marker, 10 or 15 years. And people hang. And I love that you, said you flatlined after 15 cuz I feel like that I can. No people that can identify with that. That's probably about where they flatlined as well, that it was just too much. And the systems that we have out there just aren't in favor of people being able to do that for 20 or 40 years because it just takes so much from them to be able to be of service like that.


[00:19:52] Shawna: So, and you actually have, and I know we'll talk more about this at the end a little more too, but you have an amazing program that's actually meant to help people to bounce back from burnout. Can you talk a little bit more about your program that you have? 


[00:20:33] Mary: Yes, I'd love to. I curated this program thinking about the integrative approach to treating the whole person. So there are many different techniques that can assist and facilitate people overcoming burnout. But very few of them actually look at the full holistic mind, body, spirit approach. 


[00:20:26] Mary: And so I pride myself on this five month program in that we have the capacity and the time to really dive into some of the components. Mentally, what you can do to help support yourself. Being able to recognize the neuroscience behind meditation and to look at the science behind positive psychology and grit being one of those components of positive psychology. So we incorporate techniques and tools over those five months for the individuals within the program on how they can, in a sustainable way, be of a self resource or a self filling resource. 



[00:21:09] Mary: So that's the mental component. The other component that we utilize within this program is obviously the body. We do some functional blood chemistry analysis to get a benchmark as to where people's Biomarkers are currently at, we look at the hormonal system, the endocrine system, specifically the biomarkers coming out of the adrenal system. Which is a distress hormone. 


[00:21:35] Shawna: Yes.


[00:21:36] Mary: So we look at things like, epinephrine, norepinephrine, DHEA. We look at the adr-, the cortisol, we look at how those things are functioning in an integrative kind of format so that we can help support the physical body with nutraceuticals, with whole foods, with changes within their diet. So we want to address the body component. 


[00:22:02] Mary: So now we have the mind body, and then we put the spirit in there too, for the integrative approach, and we teach the tools of energy medicine. And just like I was talking about the neutral separation, that's an energy technique. So we teach people how to auto calibrate their energy centers so that they can be a little bit more grounded, and they can be more present in present time consciousness, be more available for human interactions and relationships and be more present for themselves. 


[00:23:37] Mary: So that's the three prong approach that I present in this five month program. And it's a lot.  And the transformation, I’ll tell you the best thing for me, the most rewarding thing for me is to witness the transformation that I see within the individuals where they're like, "Holy cow, how I would've responded to this stress work three months ago is like night and day. How I responded to this conflict at work is completely different." 


[00:23:12] Mary: And it's just really amazing. It's really amazing to watch and to experience.

It's been an honor to facilitate that program. And we're starting a whole new cohort come January. I always keep my website up to date. I would give you dates today, but there are some things that I'm shifting, so I don't have a concrete date, but all of that information is available on my website and that's a living organism on its own.


[00:23:41] Shawna: So, no, that's perfect. And you also got to mention, I was so excited to hear about this. I don't know how much I've talked about this web on my podcast, but I love Costa Rica and Dr. Mary is also doing a week-long retreat in Costa Rica in March, which is a time of year. I've actually been to Costa Rica and it's fabulous there that time of year.

And so you're also, do you have a name for that retreat? 


[00:24:03] Mary: We do. It's called Embody Your Soul Retreat. 


[00:24:05] Shawna: Ah, I love it. 


[00:24:07] Mary: I know. 


[00:24:10] Shawna: So that's fabulous. I know it's definitely, everyone's like they're going to the show notes going, "Where's that website? How can I learn more about this stuff?"

So that is amazing for people to keep in mind as an opportunity to do either a week long retreat or a five month program to really dig deep and be able to look at how to look at.


[00:24:25] Shawna: You burnout and bounce back from burnout, that's like amazing. These opportunities to kind of connect with you and look deeper about these things. 'Cuz I'm sure this is resonating with people who are listening who can feel like, "Oh yes, the burnout." And people that are trying to like not be burnout, but know that it's affecting them and affecting their work. I think that the efficacy piece and the cynicism. People are like, "I don't wanna be a cynical, but I definitely, that's me." I could definitely feel that that's how I am at work. 



[00:24:51] Shawna: And you've talked about some of the other things that you talk about too, like meditation and different things that people can really do and the importance of those things to kind of connect with their body, connected with how they're experiencing this. Right? 


[00:25:03] Mary: Yeah. I wish everybody had the time to meditate at least five minutes a day. And for those people, and if I could get 20 or 30 minutes out of everybody, I would, but quite honestly, I can't tell you how many times I've ever heard, "Well, I don't have the time," to sit down for, a formal practice every day, 20 or 30 minutes.


[00:25:21] Mary: And those are the people that need it the most.


[00:25:22] Shawna: Yes.


[00:25:24] Mary: But anyway, I would take 5, 10, 15 minutes. I think the benefits of just turning off the frontal lobe, the analyzer portion of the brain, that's always so focused on the next task. If we could soften that to get into the default mode, into silence, that chatter a little bit. I think the best self-care tool that I can recommend to anyone. And I can honestly say that I have been an on and off meditator, for 23, 24 years. 


[00:26:04] Mary: And it wasn't until that we left the United States about 10 years ago and we went to Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam. That I had time on my hand. I literally, I was considered to be a trailing spouse at that time, but to make a long story short, I had time. For the first time in my life. 


[00:26:25] Mary: And I really sunk into meditation and. Experienced some really magical things, which is what motivated me to go learn the neuroscience behind the meditation.

So I can tell you emotionally, physically, energetically, meditation is probably the most rewarding self tool that you can embrace on a daily basis 


[00:26:49] Shawna: In five minutes. We don't think we have five minutes, and we have five minutes. The next time you show up five minutes somewhere, next time you go to the grocery store without the kids, without anybody else, just sit in your car for five minutes. You can carve out that five minutes if you make it a point to carve out the five minutes. So that's something that's achievable. 20 minutes that's like harder to put into our brains that we could find 20 minutes in a day. But five minutes is something that we can make sense of to try and make that happen. I think for some people too, 


[00:27:16] Mary: I think it's doable. 


[00:27:17] Shawna: Yeah, I think it's hard for some people to figure out  where to start, where to even start. And I know that I had the first place that I started was with the app

Headspace was actually a good place for me to start because it was really nice and the best thing about Headspace was that it told me that it was okay. That I couldn't do it. 


[00:27:35] Shawna: I had a yoga class when I was in graduate school. It still cracks me up that my Boston University transcript, which they later even gave me an award for my work.

But my transcript from Boston University when I haven't sent to jobs and different things, the first thing listed is a yoga class, which is like, "Yes, I got a degree from them, but they lost my yoga class first," but it was a yoga class. And in that yoga class, they would try to have us do like some level of meditation and it drove me crazy the entire time because I couldn't, and I think that it was because I didn't know enough about it was okay that I wasn't having to be successful and not think. And the app that I had was really good about just watch the cars on the freeway, as those thoughts go through your mind, just observe them and let them keep going.


[00:28:20] Shawna: Don't chase after them. And I would chase after the thoughts. And when I was in that yoga class, I would just chase all the thoughts and get caught up in the thoughts and miss everything that was happening to help me, not to quiet my mind. I wouldn't quiet it. I would just chase all the thoughts the whole time.


[00:28:34] Shawna: And so it wasn't until I had that app that told me, "No, it's okay. Just watch the cars go by on the freeway. Just watch the thoughts, observe the thoughts, and it's okay that you're gonna have the thoughts." Instead just judging myself the whole time that, "I'm not capable of doing this cuz I just chased it cuz I have all these thoughts." So, It was helpful to have an app. 


[00:28:50] Mary: But I know that the far majority, probably 98% of your listeners are resonating with what you're saying. Headspace is a phenomenal app, and so is Insight timer. 


[00:29:03] Shawna: Insight timer. 


[00:29:04] Mary: I like this. Yeah, I like Insight Timer because there are guided meditations for somebody like you that, of various different lengths so that you can pick and choose which one works for your schedule. And that way you can just listen to somebody guide you through the meditation and somehow that auditory feedback softens that internal voice. And they also have just the timer so you know that you can set the timer for five minutes and then. You know that you don't have to think about, "Oh, has it been five minutes? Am I late for my next appointment? Have I missed the bell? Have I missed something?" And so that you can just sink in to the time that you do have available if you just want a silent meditation as well. 


[00:29:46] Mary: But the looping thoughts are very, very, very common for somebody just starting meditation, and I just want to give you permission to watch those thoughts.

The goal is not necessarily, and some people have this belief that the goal of meditation is to have a completely silent mind, and that's not necessarily the goal. And maybe you do have a passing thought about a project that you're working on for work, or you have, you problem solve that idea and you, it comes to you in your meditation, and then you can just let it go and know and trust that solution. Will be available to you when the meditation is over. 

So, so many different ways, but meditation is my number one take home idea. 


[00:31:35] Shawna: Yes. Yeah. I think the entire concept that I got from that app was just the concept that it was okay. But the thoughts didn't stop and I just had to stop chasing them and just observe them and let them go. And I think that in general in life when you have a hard time letting things go, you're practicing, letting the thoughts go is the first step in practicing letting go. So it was a very good first step for me. Once I finally did that, instead of just giving up, yes, I'm like, "No, my thoughts don't stop." So yes, important little trick. But yes, we'll put the insight timer in our notes. That'll be in the show notes. You guys can find a link to that cuz that'll be helpful to have that in Headspace too, in case that resonated with somebody who was listening as well. That's very helpful. 


[00:31:21] Shawna: So you talked a little bit more about the energy medicine, and how you really feel that that's been, that's something you work a lot with and you feel like it's been helpful as well. Can you talk about how that kind of connects with the burnout piece?


[00:31:32] Mary: Sure. When it comes to energy medicine, this is a science that there are portions of this science that are yet to be proven. But there's a tremendous amount of science that is substantial, that is proving the effectiveness of paying attention to the electromagnetic current that surrounds all and what happens internally within the body.


[00:31:58] Mary: So when we look at stress, and I alluded to this earlier, that the chemical imbalance of having stress hormones running through your physical body, that doesn't just stay isolated within your adrenal system. Unfortunately, the entire endocrine system, everything from your pineal gland, which is responsible for your sleep wake cycle or your pituitary gland, or your thyroid, which is responsible for metabolism, or your thymus, which is your immune system or your pancreas, which is blood sugar, or your ovaries, which is reproductive or your adrenal system. If one of those endocrine glands is out of whack, it causes a cascade, a negative feedback cycle that happens through all of those organs. 


[00:32:51] Mary: So by utilizing energy medicine, we learn how to balance our system. We learn how to ground in the present time. And what I mean by that is that we learn how to control our mind and our body to resonate with the frequency of Mother Earth. Now, if I were to ask your audience, the listeners today, you know, what's the most calming place that you can be? A far majority of your listeners are gonna say out in nature. 



[00:33:25] Mary: And so they intuitively know that there's something that they receive when they're out in nature that makes them feel better. And so goodness, we don't need science to tell us, but years and years of people being on humans, being on this planet, we know that nature Mother Earth provides a frequency, emanates a frequency of her own, that we as humans absorb when we're out in nature. 


[00:33:56] Mary: So we can control our energy centers to meet and greet the frequency of Mother Earth for healing properties. Now, grounding and earthing, which is called the same thing. If you start Googling it, you're gonna be like, "Oh my goodness, there are earthing mats. Oh my goodness, there are sheets that I can buy that I can put on my mattress that I sleep on, or bring that frequency into my human body," and there's so much Science behind that.            


[00:34:26] Mary: So grounding is one component of energy medicine, but it also involves the energy centers that we have within our human body. And these are not systems or energy systems that we can dissect. It's not like, Similar to traditional Chinese medicine. We can't really dissect out meridians, but we know that they exist. And we know where to put the needles in order to stimulate, to activate a meridian, and we know where to put the needle to sedate that meridian or to calm it down. The same is true for energy medicine. If we can set the intention to regulate our energy system, it affects our body, our being, our essence as a whole.


[00:35:10] Shawna: Nice. And so I love this piece with the nature, and so us going out into nature being like we are automatically drawn, like we understand on this other level that that's how we're going to get ourselves more aligned and more grounded by having that, because I know when I mean to make big decisions. I go to the ocean. When I was in my twenties, I like drove and drove back in the dark, got there it was dark. I sat on the sand to make big decisions and they would drive back 'cuz I just felt more grounded and more connected when I was near the water and out in nature. So I feel like we all are just drawn. We know this, like on a deeper level, this is how we're going to be able to be more connected. That's amazing. 


[00:35:47] Mary: Absolutely. 


[00:35:48] Shawna: So you need to follow that intuition and do those things.


[00:35:51] Mary: Yes. Yes. Give yourself permission. 


[00:35:54] Shawna: Give yourself permission. 


[00:35:54] Mary: Not that you need it. 


[00:35:55] Shawna: Yes. That's wonderful. Is there anything else with the burnout that we haven't covered that we should touch base on? 


[00:36:00] Mary:  I think from a bird's eye perspective, I think that we've covered a lot today in our time together. There are so many other details that I go through in the five month program. But just to have people think integrative and when it comes to burnout and really looking to heal down to the cellular level, I think that's the message that people need to understand. 


[00:36:26]  Shawna: Yes, that there's so much more to it and that there's an opportunity to recognize that first step of recognizing that they're experiencing burnout as I think where we start and then looking for ways to kind of address it. And I think that each of our episodes, we have something that we take away that we kind of call our, our 'grit wit to walk away with.'  And I think that the piece to walk away today is probably that tool you spoke about with regards to actually recognizing the boundaries. You had a name for it. What was the name for?


[00:36:54] Mary: Yeah, I learned this at the academy from Dr. Francesca McCartney. She calls it neutral separations. And so it's just an opportunity literally to give back to those that you've interacted with and then to receive the energy that rightfully belongs to you, and then to neutrally separate so that you're too identifiable.


[00:37:17] Mary: You know, it could be a group that you're neutrally separating from, but your own identifiable. Being that separate than the group 


[00:37:25]  Shawna: Yes. 


[00:37:27] Mary: Or the other individuals. 


[00:37:28]  Shawna: So neutrally separate. And to make that acknowledgement at the end of your workday, at the end of the night, if your family member in relationships with other people, that you need to have that neutral separation so that you feel like you're taking your energy back to you and making yourself feel whole again.


[00:37:44]  Shawna: And that practice of actually separating those pieces and claiming your energy so that you aren't constantly feeling that depletion. That's brilliant. That's what I would hope that each of our... as you're listening right now for as you go to bed tonight or as leave work today, that you do that you take that time to actually, mentally and take that picture in and separate those pieces out so you claim back your energy and with blessings, separate those pieces so that you can have your energy back to help look at that burnout piece and have that boundary. I love that. 


[00:38:16] Mary: Yes. And Shawna, I will share with you just one quick story. Every night, when I lay down next to my husband, I turn and I give him a kiss goodnight. And I say, "I love you tremendously, but I'm gonna mutually separate." And so that's his, and I'm like, "Don't take it personally, but I am separating and I'm gonna go and have a good night's sleep." So... 


[00:38:37]  Shawna: Yes, no, I think, yeah, I think 'cuz as you said that like, we were talking about the helping professions and I feel that for the helping professions and for the work and for everyone I know with their work. But then I feel that for, I feel for my moms right now, especially with them going back to school with their littles who have been, a lot of them have been at home and the little ones starting kindergarten are first grade and are having such challenges with their kids at school right now and feeling that, what these moms are taken on right now. 


[00:39:02]  Shawna: I was feeling this for my moms right now. As you were saying this, as well as for my friends in the helping professions that have been having these challenges. So yes. So even with your littles moms, I'm talking to you right now. If you're listening, I'm talking to you. You need to separate from them as well and take your energy back because your energy is important. You gotta put on your own mask. So we gotta have that as well, those pieces. 


[00:39:24]  Shawna: So yes, that's very important. And then, as we close as well, we always do this piece around self-care, and so we do a spotlight on it. So with our self-care spotlight, what is the things that you do for self-care so that we can share and give people samples?


[00:39:38] Mary: I'm coming from probably more years of experience, but I am very rigid about my morning routine. I take care of myself first. So what did that mean? That means that I show up on my yoga mat. That means I do additional exercise. I have my personal meditation, I have my nutrients, I have a healthy breakfast, before I even interact with other people. 


[00:40:00]  Shawna: Yes, yes. That's an important thing. Take care of yourself first, and those are the ways you take care of yourself. And definitely the yoga and the nutrients.

I think it's hard to remember that we feeding ourselves is important, and giving ourselves nutrients actually help us attack our day is an important part of that. That is wonderful. 


[00:40:16]  Shawna: And so the thing we also have here at the The Grit Show is we have a series of coloring books and we actually have, now it's out. So for all of our guests, we offer them one of our coloring books 'cuz that's our little way of supporting self-care and offering self-care. And so we have, they're called, the Color of Grit is a series and we have two of them out so far. We have the Vintage Mermaid and Magnificent Ocean. And then we've had one that has quotes that's called, You've Got This, which is inspirational quotes. So which of those coloring books can we send you a copy of Dr. Mary?  


[00:40:46] Mary: I would like the Magnificent Mermaid. 


[00:40:49]  Shawna: Awesome. We will send you the mermaid one. We will get that off. So I need to make sure I get you your mailing address and make sure I do that so we can send you a copy of that. But that's all, 


[00:40:57] Mary: I actually saw them on your website, so I'm very much looking forward to this. And I do color, I have my little art supplies in my living room, so I do color. 


[00:41:04]  Shawna: That's perfect. That's perfect. Well then we'll definitely get you a copy of that and you can have that as one more thing to add wherever you want in your day. It doesn't even have to be part of the morning routine. That's perfect. I love it. So,  Dr. Mary, we wanna make sure people can find you and find out about this wonderful offering that's coming up in January with the bounce back from burnout, as well as your wonderful retreat that's coming up in March. And you have other things with webinars and stuff too that will be coming available. So can you let us know what your website is? They can find you. 


[00:41:34] Mary: Yes. Super easy at www. 


[00:41:39] Shawna: Perfect. And then you're also on Instagram and that one is a little different, so let us know Instagram, Facebook, what your handle is, 


[00:41:46] Mary: And it is Dr. Mary E. Sanders. 


[00:41:49]  Shawna: Gotcha. I think it's Dr with a dot, right? Dr. Dot. Mary E. 


[00:41:52] Mary:  Yes. Thank you. Thank you. 


[00:41:54]  Shawna: Perfect. We'll have the show notes so people can easily find it and just click on it to find doing the show notes as well, so if that's easier. But I listen while I'm driving and cooking and doing other things and it's, I like to hear things verbally, so we'll say it twice. So, perfect. So people, that's how you connect with Dr. Mary so that you can hear more about these exciting opportunities. And I think we're also gonna try to find, is there, do you know if there's a way to get that burnout inventory that they can, is it free to take it online if we find a link for it?


[00:42:22] Mary: I think that there is a version of it. I have a burnout self inventory that came from, and you can do that online free of charge. And this is a 15 questionnaire and it helps kind of calculate, that's not the formal mass lock, but that's an abbreviated version of that. And the mass lock burnout inventory can be found. It's called


[00:42:52]  Shawna:: Awesome. 


[00:42:53] Mary: And if I ask like a burnout tool for general use.


[00:42:56]  Shawna: Awesome. Will you send me those links and we'll put those in the show notes as well? 


[00:43:00] Mary: Yes. 


[00:43:02]  Shawna: Awesome. Because I think people will find that valuable as well to be able to check that out. I'm sure you are listening right now, it's resonating with the folks 'cuz they're definitely filling this burnout. Cause I think a lot of people are experiencing that, so it'd be nice to know where they're at and which areas they're looking at. And then to get an idea of starting with the wonderful tool you gave us with the neutrally separating that they can also find other tools to be of support for that. 


[00:43:25] Mary: Perfect.


[00:43:26]  Shawna: Wonderful. And do you have more tools on your website around supporting them with how to address if they're experiencing the burnout or primarily--- 


[00:44:33] Mary: Yeah, I have tons of, tons of blogs that address various different pain points, if you will, and how to overcome those pain points. So yes, there are some resources available on the website as well.


[00:43:44]  Shawna: Perfect. That'll be great. Thank you so much for joining us today, Dr. Mary. This has been so valuable. I know it's resonating with folks and it's great to get this out cuz people need more of this information. 


[00:43:55] Mary: Thank you again. It's been my honor. 


[00:43:57]  Shawna: Thank you. And for everyone else, I'm glad you were able to join us.

And if you want your copy of the coloring pages, you know to go find it on the website for the, and we will see you again next week.


[00:44:10] Shawna: Thank you for being here as part of our audience today. If you're interested in checking out our coloring books, after all, it is the holidays. All you need to do is Google the Color of Grit and they should pop up. You can definitely find them on Amazon. You can also get sample pages off of our website, 


[00:44:30] Shawna: Don't forget, you are the only one of you that the world has got, and that means something. We'll be here again next Tuesday. I hope you are too.