Exploring Our Internal Dialogue- a Conversation on Internal Family Systems (IFS) w/Will Halpin -32

Shawna: 0:00

I don't know about you, but even since the pandemic waned, I've been surprised by how challenging it is for folks I know to get mental health supports and services. Some of this is determined by insurance and geography, and many times it's compacted by what services they need. Some of this is likely compounded by the burnout that is rippled through the medical and mental health services community. Systems haven't supported how stressful and difficult working in these fields can be. As many of you look for resources or have loved ones looking for resources, I thought it might be valuable to learn more about some of the treatment modalities or theories that are out there. So you can seek out resources that resonate with you or seek out reading materials or other tools while you're waiting on wait list or finding the longer term supports that you or those you love are seeking. Our first foray into this is with Internal Family Systems and a valuable conversation with today's guest to give a overview of internal family systems as well as point you in the direction of learning more if it interests you to do so. If this type of conversation in reviewing modalities interests you, be sure to let me know. We can definitely do more of it. Welcome to The Grit Show growth on purpose. The show is named after each and every one of you that is joining us today. We are here on a journey that is giving us a little more ease and a little more room to breathe and to thrive. I'm your host, Shawna Rodrigues. I'm a creative and a change maker who has transitioned out of a career in nonprofits and the public sector to unleash my creative side and savor life, leading to this podcast and the launch of the Authentic Connections Podcast Network intent on increasing the number of women hosting podcasts to 37% by 2027. 37 by 27. This is our place to come together where we have conversations with thought leaders where we may not have all the answers, but we can start seeking better questions. Stick around to the end of today's conversation for a bit of Grit Wit. Something small and actionable to bring into your daily life. Because that is how growth happens, one little step at a time. Now let me tell you a little more about today's guest Will Halpin is a psychotherapist and public health social worker who has over 20 years of experience working in community health settings and in private practice in Boston. Earlier in his career, he developed programs and a comprehensive curriculum with the Boston Public Health Commission, to train healthcare providers, public safety professionals, and child welfare workers across Massachusetts on best practices in working with people struggling with crystal meth abuse and dependence and identifying and safely intervening with those who manufactured it in their homes. Most of his clinical experience has been working with the LGBTQAI+ community And specifically with complex developmental trauma and substance abuse. He has been trained in a variety of treatment modalities to offer a multitude of options when working with survivors of trauma, including Internal Family Systems known as IFS, Dialectical Behavior Therapy, DBT, and Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing, EMDR. He's currently training in and studying neurofeedback with plans to offer it as an additional treatment for trauma survivors at his private practice in Sturbridge, Massachusetts. He also enjoys training new therapists who are learning IFS and has worked as a program assistant in Level one IFS training. When he is not at work. You can find him in the mountains in a lake or in the woods. Enjoying whatever outdoor recreations available in that particular season. He is someone I think very highly of, especially given the depth and breadth of his background, and I'm so pleased we're able to speak with him in more depth today to learn more about Internal Family Systems. Thank you so much for being here today. Will.

Will: 3:49

it's wonderful to be here with you.

Shawna: 3:51

I've been very intrigued by internal family systems. The little pieces I hear about it. The first thing that intrigues me is the name internal family systems, because it doesn't seem to fit once I learn about it, how it's connected. So in your opinion, what is internal family systems like? How would you boil it down to make sense to someone who's hearing about it for, the first time.

Will: 4:12

So. When you think about internal family systems? You know, you have internal, you have family and you have systems. So we all have a variety of things going on inside of us all times, right? Because we're humans we're complex. So, you know, it could be a Saturday and there's a part of you. That's like, oh, I really want to go to the gym. I should go be good for me. I need to do this, that or the other, and another part, it's like, oh, It's been a long week. I just want to lay on the couch. The other part's like, come on, just get going. Don't waste time. And like just a matter of a few seconds, you had three different experiences inside. So when we think about IFS, so the internal is these internal voices, and I say, voices, I'm not talking Multiple personalities or things like schizophrenia, but we have internal dialogues all the time. And so the I is internal then F is the word for family. So family, as you imagine, or a variety of people kind of working together in a unit. Sometimes well, sometimes not so well. So, in that little example I gave you, we had three different experiences in conflict with one another. So F as in family, as in these competing different voices, different parts, as we say in the model. Kind of navigating day to day life. And then systems as they work as a system. Sometimes harmoniously sometimes not so harmoniously. And so when a person comes in for therapy, clearly there's oftentimes a disharmonious experience inside that they want to address.

Shawna: 5:42

So I think that's the biggest piece is that it was discovered by somebody who did family system like family therapy. And so then you start thinking of family therapy, it gets confused because you're like, what. But really it's more like looking at the way you communicate with the different parts of yourself. And seeing those different parts is more of a family system as more of a group to work together. And that's why it's family systems.

Will: 6:03

Right. When I often sit down with folks the first time I talk about IFS is a concept where think about an orchestra. You have the conductor. Then you have all the members of the orchestra, right? You have the violins, you have the flutes, you have percussion, you have french horns, you have trumpets, you have oboes, you have trombones the whole bit. And so the goal of an orchestra, is that they work together to create harmony and melody. So you have a conductor who's sort of guiding that. And so what we want to think about is, we want our systems to work like an orchestra, right? Where everyone's attuning to the conductor. Following the conductor. And at certain points, certain folks are highlighted like perhaps there is a point where the violins and the violas are prominent. And so the conductor guides them up and then kind of quiets or kind of softens the French horns or Woodwinds or what have you. And so again, like we're looking at sort of creating a harmonious. Melody harmony inside. So again, that's the concept of parts working together well. Attuning, listening to each other, like a healthy family system. So

Shawna: 7:13

sometimes I might need to go to therapy because the fact that drummer just won't stop beating the drum. When maybe I just want to listen to the flutes a little bit.

Will: 7:21

Exactly. Like people are like, I have anxiety. Anxiety riddles me. So let's get to know your anxiety, right? Your anxiety. How does your anxiety show up? Like, oh, you know, I'm out with friends and we're going out to meet new people. And I have this experience inside, like they're going to hate me. They're going to think I'm that. The anxiety shows up as this voice that is criticizing them and giving them a hard time. Okay. So that is a part that is one of your members of your internal family system. Maybe yelling really loudly or banging the drums, as you say. Really really loud. When, perhaps what you want is more soft winds. So, yeah. So we're working in therapy to address parts or members of this family system that are operating what we say in an extreme role. Like the drum that's beating way too loud and overpowering the woodwinds or overpowering the strings. So

Shawna: 8:18

I don't think a lot of my listeners realize that I do have a background in clinical social work.

Will: 8:23

Yes.

Shawna: 8:23

But there are so many different treatments and modalities and my specialty was with young children. So, I come to this very open, because I never studied it. And I definitely just heard things from my friends who work in the field and it's always been intriguing to me.

Will: 8:37

Yeah.

Shawna: 8:37

And one of the things that has intrigued me about it is this, concept about really that you hold the different parts of you and you honor them. And I think that's one thing they feel like I've heard about with IFS, or internal family systems, people call it IFS. So with IFS, it's this beautiful thing that I love about it. That a lot of times with different therapy modalities, you're trying to fix and change and banish and get rid of, and this whole concept of ifs, it's more like embracing to me and honoring was really exciting. Can you talk more about that?

Will: 9:09

So one of my trainers told me this well told our group this, when I was learning a few years back. About the ifs is not a deficit model. It's a constraint model. What I mean by that is we often think of therapy. I'm going to therapy because I'm missing something, something's broken, quote unquote, something's not working right. This sense of I'm at a deficit I'm at a broken place. The therapist is going to quote unquote, fix me. And what I love about the use of the idea of a constraint model is that constraint is we remove the constraints that inhibit your natural ability to work harmoniously with yourself. So it's this idea. I mean you're a social worker. Like, you know, strengths-based as such, elements, resiliency theory. That was such a big part of our training and certainly what I loved about our field. And it really embraces that because we're talking about, you have these capacities within you. You have the things within you already, and we remove the constraints for optimal functioning.

Shawna: 10:09

That is so wonderful. Yeah. So this idea of the constraint, I haven't heard that term. That's a wonderful, so it really is that removing the constraints and making somebody's optimal functioning, optimal life. And that's kind of what this podcast is about optimal functioning and how can people do that.

Will: 10:23

Right, right, right. And it is sort of bringing this idea that we want to get curious about our experience. So often, like you said, we just banish stuff like, oh, I don't want to do that anymore. I don't want to, I don't want to be anxious anymore. I wanna get rid of it. Certainly I can appreciate the concept. I don't want to be anxious any more, but instead of judging or banishing our experience, we turn towards it and we wonder what's going on. So I'm curious, like if we go back to that anxiety example that I gave, where someone has social anxiety, they're going to meet new people. And there's this voice that says. Oh, they're not going to like me either to think this, this or this, if like, oh, I shouldn't think that. Right? Like, stop that, stop that thought. Right? There's certainly modalities that talk about things like that. But in this one, which I love is you go, I wonder what that's about. What's going on that there's this part of me that is talking to me in this way? One of my supervisors says, I want you to fall in love with your parts, which I know it sounds so kind of woo. And kind of strange, but it is this idea of let me understand. Let me get to know what's going on. And there may be more to the story. I think about when if you're in a work situation and someone's getting really frustrated with you and they're like, rawr rawr, And you just keep ignoring them, right? What do you think is going to happen? They may escalate or if you have a child, right. And they're like getting upset, the more you probably ignore them, the more they escalate. And it's usually, Hey, Hey, Hey, whoa. Let's figure this out. Like what's going on? Let's sit down. Let's take a breath. Like what what's, what's going on here? Let's. What's behind this. And if we do that with these parts in our little family system, We learn a bigger story. And as you might imagine, I mean, not always, but when you're working with a kid or maybe with a colleague at work, when you sit down, we'll say, okay, let's sort this out. Like what's going on behind this frustration, right? That person may be, okay. So they may, they stop, and they're not as like rawr. The drums not beating as loud. You ask questions. You get curious, like, as I say, get curious, not furious. And you may learn a little bit more about what's going on. That person softens as they feel seen and understood. And things can start to shift.

Shawna: 12:30

That's really incredible.

Will: 12:31

Yeah.

Shawna: 12:31

In different conversations, I've come to understand that isn't there some way of looking at these different parts of you. I've heard the term protectors. Can you talk more about these different parts a little bit?

Will: 12:41

So we have kind of general categories and again, nothing's always perfectly clean, but we have protectors and in the protector category, there are two kinds of protectors. So we have what are called managers, and firefighters. So managers, you think about a manager. What does a manager do? Like keep things functioning, right? And that is what a manager does. Our manager parts are getting us through the day. They're our organizing parts. They're our, you know, get things done, parts, they're our efficiency, parts. and also too, that can come along with that. Are people pleasing parts or perfectionistic parts, or really strong, harsh, critical parts that are tough love coaches that are like, get this done, go, go, go right? And so those are kind of the day-to-day get you through the things, right? And firefighters operate differently in their protective way. So think about a firefighter does right. Firefighter comes to your house when there's a fire, do they knock gingerly on the door and say, excuse me, I think there's a fire, may I come in?

Shawna: 13:40

They bring an ax.

Will: 13:41

They do. Break down doors. Like, they burst in and they are like, get the fire out. So those protectors operate in our lives as like short-term solution, right? We're not thinking about the beautiful wallpaper in your front room. We're just getting the fire out. Right? So like

Shawna: 14:00

Damage, whatever you need to, to salvage, whatever you have to.

Will: 14:02

Correct. So when we think about, this kind of protector, these parts show up in ways of like raging parts that yell and scream or parts that Maybe want to use alcohol or get drunk or use substances like drugs. And they're more subtle firefighters too, that are about just kind of taking things out, right? So like sleepy parts, or if you talk about dissociation, which is a symptom people experience, when they have trauma. When it's too much, they started getting soupy and kind of like fade out or sort of feel depersonalized. So these protector parts. Both these firefighters, these managers are typically protecting what are called exiles. And exiles in the family system are typically parts that contain trauma or original burdens as we like to say or wounds.

Shawna: 14:54

Original burdens. I don't think I've heard that term before.

Will: 14:57

Or burdens, I think that's the term more, but like early on a lot of like early childhood wounding. Different kinds of traumas that people go through and these exiles carry that. So they are the ones that carry the heat and the pain of the system. Right? And so these protectors rally to exile these exiles or keep them at bay. So, if you think about if there's an exile or a young part of you that feels like I'm unworthy, I'm a failure. I'm not good enough. There may be a manager. That's like, we're going to be perfectionistic. To keep that feeling at bay right? So they're all about being perfectionist in their work life and their family life. Obviously people perfectionism can develop issues with anxiety, right? So, you know, that perfectionistic part is keeping that exile that carries the sense of worthlessness and not good enough at bay. And when the managers aren't doing a sufficient enough job at keeping that pain at bay, so that perfectionistic part is going, going, going, but that feeling of like, uh, I'm not worthy or I'm worthless is just so profound that that's when the firefighters are like, okay, like we're going to bust down the doors and we're gonna knock this out. We're going to go drink a six pack of beer tonight, or we're going to, you know get sleepy and just avoid and fall asleep and like, just check out from the world or we're going to get angry and like punch a wall or we're going to drive really fast and road rage or something. So that's kind of,

Shawna: 16:28

Or start a fight with my partner and storm out of the house.

Will: 16:31

Any of that stuff. Right. So that's how they sort of can interact the different parts.

Shawna: 16:37

It's mostly protectors and exiles, and those are the primary parts?

Will: 16:41

Right. So the concept of self is really important here. So if you think about my example with the orchestra, We have the conductor, right? When I talk to folks about parts in IFS,. I like into these protectors and these exiles is different members of the orchestra, like the violins, the flutes, and such, and the self is the conductor. Like that is the orienting force that parts can rally toward in a optimally functioning system. Where they attuned to the conductor and the conductor guides them. Typically when I'm working with folks, You know, helping them develop and get in touch with self. And kind of find the quality of self. So it's sort of this sense of like, Calmness or you're sort of in this place of like They call it Zen, you can be sort of in this quiet focused, sort of courageous, compassionate, curious place. That allows you to look at your parts and engage with them with, uh, like that sort of calm experience that I want to know. Having compassion, having, this sense of just openness.

Shawna: 17:51

This orchestra analogy is fabulous because I almost feel like in our lives, you feel like you're in the audience. Just watching this orchestra, doing whatever they're going to do and you have no control over it. Or you're in the orchestra. Trying to figure out which part you're supposed to be playing at what time. And instead of actually being like, no, my role is the conductor. And when you hear about things, cause we hear about meditation and mindfulness in different ways of trying to get out and be more of the observer and you Yeah. But understanding that is our role. And then we have these parts that we're supposed to be the one that is actually in charge of acknowledging and leading these and seeing these and holding them all at once. That's absolutely brilliant.

Will: 18:29

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the concept of this constraint model too. We help remove constraints to access self. And one of the core beliefs is that everyone has a self. Certain folks. Sure. It may take a little bit more digging to get there, but we all have this capacity for self. And I think even, I mean, the founder of the model, Dick Schwartz taught, I mean, a lot of his foundational work, he worked with eating disorders as well as in families around that. And some of his clients who were suffering severely from. Anorexia and such like that, like, you know, in hospitals monitored and everything we're able to access self, right? So folks who have been, have had the most significant challenges are able to get to that. That is the goal and the therapeutic work. And that may take a good amount of time. It may be quicker or faster, but the idea is helping clients or helping you. And as a therapist, you would also need to do your own work. But like getting in touch with those qualities of self. They call 'em the eight C's. So we have calmness, curiosity, clarity, compassion, confidence, courage, creativity, and connectedness. When you think about what those qualities embody, right?

Shawna: 19:42

Mm-hmm.

Will: 19:42

When you embody that, like that's sort of the essence of self. This sense of an entity of being that can be an observer and a place to orient, like the conductor of this orchestra. But it's also ever present as well as like an orienting force. Our goal in the work is to help build or help clients remove the constraints to get in touch with these qualities, cuz it is from these qualities that we start to engage these parts, right?

Shawna: 20:09

Mm-hmm.

Will: 20:09

And I mean, your example of using the drum beating is a great one because again, when clients come to us, right, like the drums have taken over the orchestra, there's not a conductor. The conductor is not present or at that moment or is overtaken by the drumbeat of anxiety or depression or anger. And so helping clients access, get in touch, embody, get in touch with those qualities of self, remove those constraints, then the conductor can attune to that drum. Start to build that connection. So if you think about when a conductor engages with a member, right? It's very animated. The conductor locks eyes with that person and it's like fast, fast, slow, slow, like kind of guides the vibe.

Shawna: 20:52

Yeah.

Will: 20:52

And so as you get more in touch with those eight Cs, or get a critical mass as they say of those qualities, then there's an amazing experience of flow where you can just feel it in the room, like the field just sort of shift. And the client goes, Oh, I see how hard that anxiety part is working. Or I really want to know more, like, what is this trying to do for me? Right? Like when you come from those places, it's a softer, it's an open place and there's a feeling of flow and it's less jagged, it's less rough. And from there, folks can get to understand and work with these parts and conceptually, in this work, right? We often are dealing with protectors first. Those are the ones who often show up. I mean, certainly exiles you can get there too. But you know, as you work with these protectors and they, you build a relationship with them.

Shawna: 21:49

Mm-hmm.

Will: 21:49

So, you're like, how long have you been doing this for me? When did you start doing this for me? Why? What was going on in my life that you started to do this job?

Shawna: 21:58

What made this, made this necessary.

Will: 21:59

Right. And as you get to know these parts, so often I like to joke with my clients, it's like these protectors, these managers just wanna become employee of the month. They want their name above the cash register. Right? So it's like, finally, so, and this has been my experience, even in my own work with my parts, is these protectors are like, Oh, thank you. You finally see me .Like you just yell at me. You get mad at me when I come at you and say, Oh, the people at that you're gonna meet, they're not gonna like you. They're gonna think you're this. They think you're that. You finally see what I've been trying to do. Because all this time other parts are like, Oh, go away. Right? Other parts fight. That's the as fights can happen in families, right? You know, there's a part that starts saying, Oh, you can't do this. You shouldn't, you know, Or part that says, Oh, you know, people think this, that, or the other, and there's another part of you that goes, Oh, shut up. Why stop talking that way? Right. These fights, right? So, finally when self attunes to these parts and these other parts are pushing them out, they're like, Oh, you're seeing me Yeah, you're appreciating me. You're seeing me.

Shawna: 22:58

You're letting them be employee of the month and

Will: 23:00

letting 'em employee of the month.

Shawna: 23:01

They don't know why they can't be employee of the month with that specific behavior.

Will: 23:05

Well, it's funny. If you go at it with an agenda, In my experience is they just kind of push back, right? They just say, Well, this is why I have to do this. Like, come on. Um, but when you work with them and you listen and you hear them and you atune to them, and you start to notice them in your day to day, right? So, as you build this awareness and you go through your day, it's like, Oh wait, there's that, that part that likes to say- be careful. They will think this, They will think that. You're like, Oh, there you are. I remember what you do. And you take that one moment and notice

Shawna: 23:33

mm-hmm.

Will: 23:33

Then that part softens a little bit. It may start to be a little quieter. and as the part feels more attuned and listened to, then you're like, Well, what are you protecting me from? For me? Yeah. Yeah. And then that protector can be, or that manager can be, Well, I don't want you to be absolutely embarrassed and just full of shame. And it's like, Oh, okay, so you're trying to protect me from shame and embarrassment.

Shawna: 23:59

Mm-hmm.

Will: 24:00

Is there a part that carries some of those burdens that you're protecting and you know, again, like maybe more nuanced than that, but then you may find yourself getting in touch or they're like, There's an exile. Who carries stories of being burdened by shame or embarrassment, that has galvanized this manager into its job.

Shawna: 24:21

Mm-hmm.

Will: 24:21

And again, it's a negotiation. We just don't go, Oh great. Thanks for telling about this exile. Can I go? Managers like, wait a second. I've been protecting this exile for years.

Shawna: 24:29

Yeah.

Will: 24:29

I need to build trust. My little fun equation that I tell clients is trust, is consistency and behavior over time. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. As you work with these protectors and you get to that relationship, eventually they will step back and they will let you work with that exile and help attune just with all those same eight Cs. And you listen and you attune to this exile. And that's where burdens can start to be lifted. We can start to shift the potency of the burdens carried by that exile part.

Shawna: 25:02

That's amazing.

Will: 25:03

Yeah.

Shawna: 25:03

And I'm sure that it makes like a big difference. And it sounds like this is an element of the human condition. Resonating with all of us in different ways. We all have these mechanisms. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it just goes to extreme levels that become hard to function. Challenges that become

Will: 25:21

Right.

Shawna: 25:22

detrimental to our lives.

Will: 25:23

Right. And of course, like it sounds so nice when I describe it that way, but I mean, it may take weeks, Yeah. Months to get there's, that's hard. But it's pretty powerful when you can get to those places. So these exiles, and this is not always the case, but you know, frequently they're from younger times of our lives, younger parts of us. I have little Wills. I have clients who have, you know, little versions of themselves who are like riddled with shame or riddled with fear from various things that have happened, and it becomes this sort of loving, tender, relational experience. Just like that protector wanted to be seen and validated and fallen in love with, as my supervisor says. You see me, you gave me employee of the month. That this exile is like, you can finally relate to this little vulnerable part. And just like a parent tending to their child when they've had a nightmare or kid who scuffed their knee. Like, Come here, I've got you. And you're like, What happened today? Like, talk to me about it becomes this very relationally healing experience. So it's again, that flow state where people are in that and you watch them. And they intuitively know what to do. Oftentimes with these clients, what needs to happen? Now I need to give this one a hug. Will they accept it? Yeah. Or like, I need to do this, I need to do that. Like when clients are in that state of flow, I mean, again, like their self is in charge. I'm not doing anything. Yeah. I'm kind of just, I'm over witness. Right. And it's, yeah, again, it speaks to that concept of the constraint model, but yeah.

Shawna: 26:52

Sounds very powerful.

Will: 26:53

Mm-hmm. I like to say too that you know when you're dealing with these different parts, right? I feel like I say they're either really trying to help you or they need help from you, right? Mm-hmm. So those exiles, the ones who are like, help me, attend to me, like a child crawling into their parent's bed at night with a nightmare, right? Or these protectors, like they said, we're trying to help. Can you see what I'm trying to do? Can you see why? and when you work with these exile parts, these protectors are watching and you say Hey, was that, you know, that part that used critical statements to you? Is that part been watching? You tend to this one? Yeah. How they reacting, you know, and what often or what can happen in this case is these protectors don't feel the need to be extreme right? Because sometimes these managers are forced into a role. A favorite protector part that I feel like is common in all of us. I know I certainly have had mine. I call our inner critics.

Shawna: 27:47

Mm-hmm.

Will: 27:48

Our critic parts. This is anecdotal, this is not by any chance research, but I was, I've worked with my clients over the years who, with their inner critics. So often they're like, I'm yelling and I'm harsh. I'm tough love coaching you because no one, you're not listening to me or I have to be this extreme. And when you get to know these protectors like this, trying to understand why they do, you can ask them like, Well, you know, what do you like about your job? Actually, I get tired. Like, I don't like yelling at you. I really don't. I would rather just be like a motivational cheerleader, you know?

Shawna: 28:20

Mm-hmm.

Will: 28:21

And again, I've, It's funny, I've actually heard that from a number of clients where these critics are like, I really don't wanna yell at you. I wanna be a cheerleader. I don't wanna bang the drums really loud. I wanna bang the drums in a way that supports the rest of the orchestra, right? So, as you heal these exiles, these managers or even these firefighters can be in a more moderated role, right? You might think, well, gosh, how is like using drugs or alcohol or getting blackout drunk, how does that part have a place? Right? But that part's like, I just wanna stop the pain. I want you to just get away from the hurt. I don't want you to feel it. Right? Yeah. And there are good ways to do that. There are great ways to take a break from pain or just to take a break, right? I'm gonna go to this beach. I'm gonna go on this hike in the mountains. Or I'm gonna go and listen to music in a bathtub with bubbles and candles, right? There are great ways to take breaks. There are great ways to get away.

Shawna: 29:14

Yeah. But when you're trying to protect an exile that you're trying to hide away, nothing else will do it. No, nothing else will do it. Like a bathtub with bubbles is not gonna gonna keep that exile away. No. And so it makes sense why you need something that significant, that a firefighter to mm-hmm. cut that off and, and to make sure that there's enough right.

Will: 29:34

Cause those exiles are so burdened, they're just screaming in pain. Right? And they're so loud, these protectors are like, I've gotta double down. Like, yeah, bubble baths ain't gonna cut it. It's a six pack of beer. Or you know, liter of vodka or something. So as we hopefully can help those exiles, unburden, there's a whole process with that where you witness them and you help them release these burdens in this relational way, right? Mm-hmm. um, that hopefully again, and what can happen is these managers can soften, right? Critics become cheerleaders or parts that wanna fall asleep just find other ways to take breaks or perfectionistic parts. Learn how to motivate us to a certain point and then say, Okay, that's good enough, right? Yeah. So,

Shawna: 30:18

You know, there's other ways to serve the purpose, right? Once they realize what purpose they're trying to serve, like what they're trying to do. Yeah. There's other ways to do it. Yeah. That's amazing. And it makes sense why this is really taken off because how long have you been connected to this?

Will: 30:31

I mean it's been around, gosh, I wish I'd give the time, but I know it's been around since the nineties and you have to quote me on that, but, I was trained in 2018, so what four years. Wow. But I feel like it's really changed the way I interact with clients, with the way I think about, quote unquote mental health diagnoses. Right. The medicalization of it all. And it's really just one of the models that's completely shifted the way I think about clinical therapy.

Shawna: 31:00

Everyone I know who's done stuff with it, it's really impacted them and they've been very Yeah. Passionate about it in the way they see things. And I think it is a desire to be like, Oh my gosh, things make sense now instead of having to pathologize everything and everything being an issue of like, oh my gosh, like, things make sense and there's a way that I can accept and see myself in a way that's really healthy and

Will: 31:19

mm-hmm.

Shawna: 31:20

makes sense. Everybody makes sense. Everyone has those parts.

Will: 31:23

Yep.

Shawna: 31:24

And how strong those protectors get and how urgent their responses get. Mm-hmm. and how dangerous the responses get to be able to function and do the things in life you wanna do, and how debilitating they get so you can function, is what the question becomes. And so that's why it's amazing to have this way of, of everyone being able to look at that spectrum and how they can support themselves.

Will: 31:43

Yeah.

Shawna: 31:44

So with IFS I know there's a wait list to even be trained in it.

Will: 31:48

Yeah.

Shawna: 31:48

And probably it's hard to get supports in it, but there's like a website and stuff people can look

Will: 31:53

Yeah. Yeah. The IFS Institute, just Google IFS Institute, that is their main page. They have all sorts of resources, articles, videos, their original founder, Dr. Dick Schwartz, has a number of videos of him practicing the model and showing him working with protectors and exiles and helping clients get in touch with self. And certainly trainings for therapists. There's, also a movement to train folks who are not therapists too. And there are, I was at a conference in IFS back in 2019 and they were talking about this model they've been bringing to China and they've been working on training just folks who are interested in helping, right? Like lay folks, non-professionals and helping people. And it's rigorous, it's a lot of work on yourself. I mean, a big part of IFS is also the therapist doing your own work because Yeah, if you're not in a place of curiosity, compassion, and you're operating from a part, right?

Shawna: 32:48

Yeah.

Will: 32:49

You're gonna impact the client's ability to get in touch with those things, right? You know, it's great that the movement in this is trying to say, Look, there's, there's wait lists. There's all this, but we want to give more people access to this. I can't speak comprehensively to that, what they're doing. Yeah. But I know what's going on. I know people who are dieticians or nutritionists or physical therapists who are getting trained in this because not only, as you very well know, parts don't just show up as anxiety or depression or anger or what have you. They can show up in really big physical symptoms. Right? Yeah. You know, we know that mind body so interconnected, right? Yeah. Yeah. So people are like, I have a pain in my shoulder that will not go away and manipulating it through physical therapy in and of itself does not stop it. We get to know the part that is using the pain in the shoulder or the part that's in there. Let's get to know that pain. Let's go toward it. Oh, wow. And let's be curious. So again, physical therapists who have that sort of construct mm-hmm. It's not just bone broken, bone fixed muscle loosen, muscle tighten. Right? It's not so black and white. Um, parts may use the body to signal stuff, right? Yeah. They're like, Okay I'm girding you against danger, or I'm girding you against threat. Right? So the part tightens and, Anyway, I'm getting off on a tangent, but again, just this concept of more folks beyond just therapists and psychologists getting trained is something that the IFS Institute is working towards. And like I said, I wish I could speak more to what they're doing in China. It's been a while since I've looked at what they're doing, but again, it's a comprehensive way of giving this to folks so that they can just get more people healed

Shawna: 34:36

Yeah. You know, and again, my passion for folks listening, my passion, an early child mental health, and as you're saying this, we always look at kids and looked at the what's behind the behaviors, like the whole thing with kids. And so like me going like, Hmm. And thinking of a foster mom I know has a child that's. Spreading poop across the walls after visits with mom and me thinking about, you know, the protector parts and how those things could go in with working with young kids even. And like how it all integrates. I love how things integrate. So yes, it has me thinking about all those things.

Will: 35:06

Yeah. And there's there's whole trainings on working with children, right? Little kids, middle, middle, childhood teenagers. Right. There's all, and again, I can't speak to that cause I don't work with that population. I work with adults. Yeah,

Shawna: 35:18

there's a lot to it. Mm-hmm. Yes. And I have too much on my plate to get too excited, and interested in that, but I love it. Yeah. Is there any, like books that you've read around it that you would recommend or that you can think of? Um, especially for somebody who's, that's not super clinical.

Will: 35:32

Okay. So there's a book called Self Therapy. Mm-hmm. I know that sounds kind of generic, and I believe the author's name is Jay Earley, j a y e a r l e y. And what I like about this book is it's a self-guided ifs, really. Yeah. Um, and I think it's a, I've recommended to most of my clients, so who are like, eager to learn more. It helps his sort of, it introduces them to the language, it introduces them to the parts and the names, and sort of carries them through some experiential exercises that kind of wets the appetite or gives 'em a chance to practice. Cause again, The idea of it is you do it in sessions with clients, but hopefully on their own, right? They're like walking through their day and like, Oh, I'm so mad at myself. Oh wait, I just heard that voice that said that to me. I wonder what that's about, right? Mm-hmm. so teaching clients to do their own parts work, right? Yeah. Empowering them to do the work on their own.

Shawna: 36:31

That's amazing. That's, I love the, should have known you would have a book, but I love that you had a book and I wanna put that in the show note so people can get a link to it in the notes so they can definitely find that book and be able to access it.

Will: 36:41

There's another one too cuz there is IFS therapy for couples. Right? Like working with couples. Really? Yeah. IFIO it's called, You are the one you've been waiting for.

Shawna: 36:51

Oh.

Will: 36:51

It helps clients learn towards tending to their own parts and not expecting their partner to be the primary source of healing those parts. Right? Ooh. Yeah. So, and I'm not saying that we don't need partners and they can't help us, Right. But

Shawna: 37:08

yeah. But that concept of recognizing that you can't expect them from another human or else gonna be disappointed in them and in yourself, and the relationship's gonna be challenged by it.

Will: 37:17

Or it becomes a primary source. Right? in the book, they use this example called the Magic Kitchen. So this is not an original thing. This is what I read, where this idea that if you have a kitchen where you make standard meals, like you have good home cooked meals, right? Like your parts have a place that they can always eat at, right? Mm-hmm. they always have a place to go. And when you have a partner like, Oh, there's a different cuisine down the street. Wow, I can enjoy Thai food or I can. You know, um, southern home cooking or I can enjoy seafood, right? But if that kitchen is closed, they aren't gonna starve, right? Yeah. They can go back home and they have meatloaf and potatoes, or whatever. They have that primary source where you can attend to your own parts. Nice. So yeah, it's you are the one you've been waiting for.

Shawna: 38:04

I'll put it in the show notes as well. I love it. I love resources. This has been very valuable. Thank you so much. I think it's been great for our listeners to hear more about internal family systems and how it's a beneficial. Theory way of looking at things and valuable to look more into getting resources around it if it is intriguing to them. Mm-hmm. So along these lines, we always talk about Selfcare. Yeah. And our episodes. So we have our little self-care spotlight. So what do you do for self-care Will?

Will: 38:29

Well, I do variety of things for self-care. So I really love lifting weights, so I lift weight. I'm an aficionado of crossFit, what can I say? So I go and move heavy weights. I, um, learn how to practice technical lifts cuz it's really enjoyable. I will go to a mountain and go hiking. I'll go for a walk in the woods. I'll go for a swim in a lake. Those are like, yeah. Anything in nature. Mm-hmm. just put me in nature in one shape, way, shape or form. Even just like standing in a park that works. So that works. Those are my main places for self care.

Shawna: 39:07

So you love the outdoors. Yes. And you love being outside that's really nourishing and giving back to you then to be doing those things.

Will: 39:14

Yes. That is my number one go-to and every time it works, I've learned that One of my favorite things to do, I recently started doing was going camping by myself. Oh, nice. So I will go on a Saturday or Friday and I'll, I'll give my partner like the information where I'm at so people know where I am. But then I disappear for two days and I am on my own in the woods and I'm hiking by myself. I'm cooking meals by myself. I'm sitting by the fire, by myself, and it's a really good chance for me just to be quiet and be in nature. You know, I check in with my own parts, spend time with my parts in that sort of uninterrupted, no stimulus place. So,

Shawna: 39:54

That's so important. That's amazing. Mm-hmm. And as you may know, cuz he might've listened to the show before, I don't know, but maybe as he may know, maybe I also give all of my guests a copy of one of the color of Grit coloring books as to add to their self-care repertoire. Yes. So would you enjoy a copy of the Color of Grits Vintage Mermaid at Magnificent Ocean, or you've got this, which is a collection of quotes that you get to color in. Which would you prefer?

Will: 40:21

I think I'm gonna go with the quotes.

Shawna: 40:23

Wonderful. Well we will make sure to get you a copy of that. Yes. Thank you. Mm-hmm. And so then the other thing that we do at the end of our episode, which we call kind of Grit Wit, is give a takeaway for everyone is something they can walk away from this episode and be able to kind of apply Yeah. And take forward. So what would be an exercise or something folks can take away from this that they can do? Yeah,

Will: 40:44

I'll pull out my little phrase that I love to use. Get curious, not furious. So when you're going through your day and you have this experience, right, like you get flooded with anxiety or you get like this critical voice saying, Oh, you're this, you're that. I invite you. Instead of saying, Oh, oh, I hate when I think that way, or, Oh, I hate when I get anxious. I invite you to instead getting furious at that. Get curious. Take a moment. It may take a little bit of a moment cuz you may be having, you may feel a little overtaken, but as soon as you get a little space from that, say, Huh. I wonder what that was about. Start to get curious about the part of you that was trying to tell you something that was trying to help you probably in some way, although it feels a little dubious at the moment.

Shawna: 41:31

Yes. And I love the term protector. So, if you're stuck and like, why did I get like that? How was that trying to protect me in some way. Like how was that helpful in some way that I would have that strong of a reaction to that. Like how could that be helpful?

Will: 41:45

Yeah. Right. Like I said, get curious. Not furious. It could be a protector, it could be an exile, crying out for attention or help, right? Like a little one saying, I feel so worthless. Yeah. So yeah. So get curious about it. Don't push it away. Don't get judgmental, don't get critical. Try to be curious. Now, if you are judgemental or critical, that is another part. And that is okay. And if you, if you cannot find spaciousness to, to not be critical, then get curious about your judgmental part. Get curious about the critical part of you that wants to just get rid of that other one. Be a little meta, I guess, but yes,

Shawna: 42:24

yes. They get the, another setback and I step back from that. Another step. Mm-hmm. right? So we'll go with for the next two solid days. So whenever you're looking at this, do a mental note for the next two solid days to kind of evaluate for yourself of each time that you start to respond to something and then check in with yourself in two days and say, Have I been doing that for the last two days? So when you're listening to this, do a mental marker of two days from now to see if you've managed to actually remember to stop and be curious when those things happen. Yeah, and give yourself another marker to try and stop and be curious, not furious.

Will: 42:56

Curious. Not furious.

Shawna: 42:57

I like it. I very much like it. And we'll have in the show notes those books so that you can check those out. And so people want to be able to connect with you. Mm-hmm. I know that you are in private practice and aren't open to clients right now cuz you're very full. Right? That if people do wanna connect with you, what is a way that they can connect with you, your website?

Will: 43:17

About the Sure. My guess is my website, which is WillHalpin.com. I am a therapist. I am practicing in Massachusetts and Connecticut, so that does limit me too. Yeah, that's probably the best way to find me.

Shawna: 43:28

So people can look on your website, WillHalpin.com. Mm-hmm. And we'll have that in the notes as well. And that's the way to reach out to you. The best place we'll also have in the show. The IFS. Websites a great place to find more information about them and their resources and they're nationwide. Yeah. And so internationals international, so there should be resources that we mentioned China. So there should be resources wherever you are listening to this, to possibly look into those resources, to that website. So it's probably, if you're really curious, the best pace for you guys to dig in and learn more about that. I highly encourage that. Yes. Yes. Thank you so much. It's been so valuable. I really value your time and I appreciate you chatting with us about this. Yes, it's

Will: 44:06

been such a joy chatting with you, Shawna. As always. As always,

Shawna: 44:09

we're very fortunate like that. Wonderful. And for all of you listening, thank you so much for being here today. Just a reminder, your self care is very important and we do have samples of those coloring pages. You can grab them off of our website, The Grit Show dot com. Before I let you go, one last reminder. You are the only one of you that this world has got, and that means something.