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Shawna Rodrigues 0:00

Welcome to The Grit Show. Growth on purpose. I'm your host, Shawna Rodrigues and I'm happy to be here with you as your guide for all of us growing together as seekers, and thrivers.

Shawna Rodrigues 0:14

ed two boys into the world in: 2012

Lori Mitchell 1:46

Thank you for having me. That was a beautiful intro.

Shawna Rodrigues 1:50

Thank you. I know you have such, such a layered background. And I was hoping to capture it in a way that we could help folks know who is here to chat with us. So as we start our conversation, I would love to chat a little bit more about the holidays and about holidays and family traditions. Do you have any family traditions around the holidays?

Lori Mitchell 2:07

We do. My, you know, little family, with my boys and my husband, we were actually in Belgium when my children were born. So typically, we would always go to, you know, visit with my parents on the holidays and my grandparents. But when we were in Belgium, we were a whole ocean away. And what I found is that I loved being home all day, as a kid, as a kid, we traveled to both my mom's side of the family and my dad's side of the family. So it was a very like, rush, rush, rush. Very exciting. I loved seeing all of my family on the particular day. But then when I experienced this other side of things, seeing my kids, you know, having just this calm, relaxed day where they could be whoever they needed to be after the chaotic morning, it's truly been something that I've been trying to recapture. Because I think for me, the biggest part of the holiday is allowing people to be who they need to be because it is a really chaotic time. And sometimes you kind of hit, hit your limit and use it to unwind. So, a tradition that we kind of have is that we stay home on the holiday. We usually play games, somebody gets a board game somewhere along the line that we have to try to play. And then we have the board games that we enjoy as a family. And we just spend time cooking and relaxing and enjoying each other.

Shawna Rodrigues 3:52

That is so wonderful. With my fiancee, we have it where we go home, we're from the same hometown. So it makes a little easier. So when we travel, we are four and a half, five hours from there. But we travel for either Thanksgiving or for Christmas but we rotate which one each year and we have the other holiday to ourselves. And it's so funny because instead of doing something big and fancy for ourselves or gathering with friends and doing something we're like, let's do nothing. But I think the pandemic, what's our relationship has been during the pandemic which kind of facilitated that. But we found that we just liked to be able to chill and do nothing. So I definitely second that a tradition of doing less, is a good tradition. As I said to start actually enjoying the people and the quiet as sort of the hustle and bustle because a lot of the holidays is a lot of hustling and bustling.

Lori Mitchell 4:40

Yeah. And I'm someone who I kind of take on whatever energy is around me. And I just had this aha moment. It was just my husband and I and Max was little and it was just the three of us on Christmas day and I got like a cup of, I think it was a cup of eggnog. I'm not even sure. And my husband and my oldest son, were taking a nap, and the Christmas tree was on, and I had music. And I was just sitting by myself in my own little piece, you know, with my little family around me, and it was all cozy and warm. And I'm like, this is amazing. I've never had this on a holiday. And this is amazing.

Shawna Rodrigues 5:28

Yes, yeah, gotta take those moments and appreciate them. I like that. So for you listening right now, find your moment, that holiday season to find those quiet moments where you get to actually enjoy the calm, enjoy the music, and the lights and the tree and the quiet pieces that are the beautiful parts of it. I love it. So I want to hear more about your alignment and revisioning because I know that was part of your process. With you shifting from your career and your work as a teacher. As things shifted after losing your husband, can you talk a little bit more about that realignment and revisioning of what your life was and to be able to accommodate this new shift for you?

Lori Mitchell 6:06

Well, it didn't come initially. I think, I mean, I know that the pandemic had a huge part in that because my initial reaction was, I'm not gonna let this destroy us. I'm not gonna let this change us. We're gonna get through this, we're going to be fine. And I kind of went into like, hyper independent supermom mode. I'm going to keep everything perfect. Everything's gonna be fine. We're gonna keep moving. And if we keep moving and keep doing all the things that we normally do, everything will be okay.

Shawna Rodrigues 6:39

Yes.

Lori Mitchell 6:41

And that was exhausting.

Shawna Rodrigues 6:43

Yeah.

Lori Mitchell 6:43

Yeah. So fast forward to life in pandemic teaching, I got a role as an interventionist, we moved across the country, I was working as an interventionist and the pandemic hit. And initially, that job was really about trying to find where my students went, because everyone went home. But some, I mean, we had some students in other states, we had some students that we couldn't get a hold of. The following year, because of the nature of what was going on in a school year, I actually moved into a full caseload teaching load, and worked with the virtual school because I knew that the schedule was going to be unpredictable, nobody really knew what the school year was gonna look like. And I had two small children who, because of their trauma had difficulty with transitions, with the consistency and routine. And that was kind of just not going to happen for this school year, and my youngest child was starting kindergarten. So it was a big deal. I knew that I needed to be able to work from home. Just in terms of like juggling schedules and everything. I took on a full caseload. At one point, between the three of us, we had 14 Zoom meetings. I was managing 14 Zoom meetings in my downstairs, we each had our own little separate space, and I was like perched so I could see everybody, and make sure that, you know, people were getting where they needed to be, and kind of somewhat on task. Because I was the taskmaster, right? We're gonna do what we're supposed to do, and we're gonna keep moving and everything is going to be fine. And, and then the district that I was in, wanted all teachers to come back to the school building. And it was a hybrid model. So it was like, some days, some kids were there. You know, kids were going like half the time. So like, kids with last names A through L were going on certain days, and then kids with last names M through Z were going on other days. But they wanted teachers to also come in. And I didn't have any students who are going to be in the building. None of my co teachers were going to be in the building. My principal wasn't going to be in the building. It was just this, we want to be able to say like all of our teachers are back in the building. And I had this added layer of, there's no room in daycares.

Shawna Rodrigues 9:38

Yep.

Lori Mitchell 9:38

Like, COVID is full swing. I don't know how I'm supposed to be physically two places at the same time. And to be honest, at the time, this was super difficult. It felt so heavy and so awful, and it felt like I was, I was choosing between like, my identities.

Shawna Rodrigues: 10:03

Yeah.

Lori Mitchell: 10:04

Right? Because I took on as a teacher, I grew to love this job. It became part of who I was, I loved my students. I love the work that I was doing. And, and I had my, my babies, right?

Shawna Rodrigues: 10:22

Yeah.

Lori Mitchell: 10:22

And it was like I was being forced to choose between who I was going to take care of. And essentially, it wasn't until I physically couldn't be two places at once that I realized, this isn't working.

Shawna Rodrigues: 10:38

Yeah.

Lori Mitchell: 10:39

And it's not sustainable. Because I was still, in kind of the survival mode of grief. I hadn't allowed myself to grieve, because I was too busy making sure my kids weren't permanently scarred for the rest of their lives. Getting them everything that they could possibly need, getting them intervention as soon as I could, and kind of putting off my grief, because I was going to take care of everything. And it kind of all just showed up that this is not working. This is not sustainable. I'm really burned out, I'm exhausted, I can't physically do one more thing. I can't physically do one more thing. And, and that's kind of when I decided to leave teaching. And I left right before the fourth quarter. Because it was, there was a line drawn in the sand. And I said, I'll finish the school year, if I can continue doing the job that I'm doing that I've been successful doing, all year long, if I can continue doing that, I'll stay till the end of the year. But if you're going to force me to change what I'm doing to just be in a closet, teaching,

Shawna Rodrigues: 11:52

yeah,

Lori Mitchell: 11:53

I can't, I can't do that. I can't do that to my family. And so that was kind of, they're like, Okay, well, good luck.

Shawna Rodrigues: 12:03

Wow, it's amazing you were able to do all of that, right? To be able to balance all that and do all of that to begin with, and then to have to make that choice. But till then realize, that probably wasn't the best thing to be sustaining even as it was.

Lori Mitchell: 12:17

Yeah, and it was a difficult, it took me weeks. It took me weeks to make the decision. And I'd remember, there was one evening and I was just sitting and there was no noise. And I suddenly realized it had been hours that I had just been like, sitting on my couch. And all of the, all of the things just swirling around in my head, trying to weigh the pros and cons and figure out what it was I was going to do and what it meant, what it meant to leave. And I at that time, had every intention of returning to teaching. It was going to just be a break.

Shawna Rodrigues: 13:03

A temporary shift and make things work since it couldn't work the way that it was currently.

Lori Mitchell: 13:08

Yeah, exactly.

Shawna Rodrigues: 13:10

So where are you at with that now? Where do you think you're at with your path now?

Lori Mitchell: 13:14

Yeah, it's, it's interesting, because since that decision, I've taken so much action, and been so intentional about where I want to be as a person, where I want my family to be, what I want to be doing, what kind of impacts I want to be having in my daily life, as well as trying to create a vision of the future, that I now understand that teaching, though I loved it, it was insanely draining to me. And by consuming myself with helping, you know, 155 students, I didn't have to do any work on myself.

Shawna Rodrigues: 14:01

Yeah.

Lori Mitchell: 14:02

Now, the thought of going back to that, I know that I would lose the sense of peace that I'm creating now. I think once we attain some sort of peace, and quiet and calm in our lives, we've never had that, I think we get insanely protective of it. Because we know what it looks like to not have it and it's like I just want to hold on to this and I want to work to keep things the way they are. Yeah. And so now, I mean, I get to go to all of my kids functions at school. I get to volunteer to like read stories. My kids come first. You know, I get the note saying, we need pictures of this, this and this and I'm like, on it, immediately. It's not like a last minute, Oh shoot, I forgot to do that and frantically trying to, you know, get something done so that my kids not the only one without whatever they are supposed to have. You know, it's just, it's really nice to be a mom first. And that's really what my kids need at this point. It's actually been a huge, it's been something that I'm still learning to identify with is being a mom who works from home. And not like a career mom. Like, a woman who has her career who is also a mom. Because that's who I identified with before my job was super important, my career was super important. And my work is super important now, but I also have this perspective of my children are only going to need me in this way, for a limited amount of time. And that job for me at this point in my life is the number one job. And so my identity as a mother is really taking the forefront. And that has taken a great deal of work to get to that point.

Shawna Rodrigues: 16:05

That's amazing, that you found that and be able to get that in place. And I think there's also an element for people who have experienced trauma and grief and loss that sometimes the busyness and the overly involved stuff as it could wait to kind of put that stuff away. I think that right now with the holiday seasons, sometimes people don't realize that keeping themselves overly busy is a way to avoid some of those emotions, and avoid some of that until everything comes crashing around them. And they kind of, you know, wall with it all. And so it's kind of one of these hard things of trying to recognize like, that there is something to be said about that quiet and finding that space and to be able to make those decisions about what is best for you, and for moving forward and how that can be hard to do. So, do you feel like it was easier with the grief process once you had more space? Or do you feel like having yourself be busy kind of, helped you get to that next phase of the grief?

Lori Mitchell: 16:59

So, I left teaching. And it became very clear that I hadn't allowed myself to grieve yet. And so, I intentionally, that was what, that was my goal. A year ago, a year ago, my goal was to finally just allow all of the feelings to almost invite grief in, in a way that I could only do because of the way I set my life up. And, and because of that, because I allowed all of that to happen, my grief isn't gone. It's not something that just leaves us. I think as we heal layers, other layers up here to be healed. There's a model of grief, the Tonkin's model of grief shows, you know, grief is kind of this constant piece of us, and the grief doesn't get smaller, we just learn and grow around it. So our ability to carry it changes. And that's really the model that speaks the most to me, because my grief hasn't gotten smaller. It just feels different. It's still there, I'm, you know, I still have days when it feels like it was just yesterday that this happened. But I have tools now. And I have an understanding now that allows me to feel grief, and cope in a way that I couldn't before.

Shawna Rodrigues: 18:50

That model makes a lot of sense. You hear things about like, if you carry a glass of water, and you're holding it away from your body, that like, your arm where is that it's hard to carry it. And then you know things about like, the backpacks that are designed to keep it close to your body and in a different way it's easier to carry things and, and it feels like that with the way you carry it and where you place it in your body and how it fits with you can make it easier to carry, but it doesn't change how big it is or what it is and how your life has changed because of it. It's just a different way of bringing things and that your life does change. And you have to accept that your life does change for the loss of a person. Life is different after that, and you can't pretend that it's not even though you try really hard to just double down and do things twice as much and twice as hard to pretend like it's not gonna change anything. But it does actually change. You just have to kind of accept that.

Lori Mitchell: 19:37

Yeah, and at different points, depending upon how I'm feeling during the day, if someone were to say this to me, I probably want to like, throw a punch at them, but there is a freedom that comes with loss because there's an opportunity to reinvent part of yourself that perhaps wouldn't have existed. So, and again, if someone had told me that, you know, four years ago, I would have been really pissed off, I would have been like, that's an awful thing to say, and I hate you. And I hate this. And I hate all of it.

Shawna Rodrigues: 20:18

Yeah. Because you have no desire to reinvent yourself. You were happy, exactly with the words you said, what you have no desire to reinvent anything.

Lori Mitchell: 20:25

No. And, you know, if I wanted to reinvent myself, I would, you know, this didn't have to happen for me to do it. It's ridiculous. Yeah. But with perspective, and with healing, and with an intentional, like, I don't want to feel like this. I don't want my life to look and feel like this every day from here on. So what am I going to do about it? How do I want my life to look? How do I want to feel during the day? How do I want to move forward with my grief? Not move forward from my grief, because that's impossible. And I think that attitude of how do I move forward from my grief? This idea of having an ending is almost like the search of a timeline. When is it going to end? How do I make it end? I want, you know, the 15 minute soundbite of grief, I don't want the actual like, what this is. And so that perception of how do I move forward with my grief? How do I want my life to look, knowing that this is going to be part of it has really helped me shape what I want, and acknowledge and be grateful for the freedom and the perspective that I have now. Especially since it is very clear, I lost my brother was 21. My husband was 36. And you just get this understanding that yes, I could live. I want to live to be an old lady like my grandmother, my grandmother is 93. And I want to live that long. Also, I might not get to. So what do I want out of this life? And how do I get it?

Shawna Rodrigues: 22:22

Yes, that's so important. And with your, your kids and helping them kind of understand this piece, because I also think that's a challenge too, because losing a partner is something they have not experienced and is definitely a different level of weight. I've lost my mom and I have friends who have lost parents and friends have lost siblings, and that's really challenging in itself. But with kids, when they lose grandparents, when they lose parents, when they lose siblings, like helping kids understand that when the adults around them are trying to outrun it instead of learning how to carry it like how can you teach a child to carry it when the adults around them are just trying to outrun it or pretend it doesn't exist? So you have a unique perspective because of your work with kids as well as your kids yourself. Can you talk a little bit about how, as adults we are when we have kids around us who are experiencing grief and how we can help them with that?

Lori Mitchell: 23:14

I am so thankful that I had the background that I had and I worked with the students that I did. Because I don't know how I would have, I don't know how that would have looked. My youngest child, especially, really, really struggled. First he didn't. But it's because of his age. So my husband died 10 days before my youngest son's fourth birthday. So he was three when his dad died, he turned four. And his perception of permanence wasn't developed, right? So there was no understanding of never. Right? Like, Daddy's never coming back. You know, we're never going to see him again, that understanding wasn't there. So it was probably, it was three months, that almost every day, my youngest son would say, maybe Daddy will be there when we get home. And I understood and I knew that this wasn't meant to be triggering for me. This wasn't meant to be upsetting. This was his little beings like, hope that one, maybe his dad would be there. Maybe what everyone was describing wasn't really real. And also he didn't get it. He was processing and understanding and so what he needed was one, not to be crushed. You know, he, he needed support in processing and understanding that himself. And so my response was, generally, I would usually have to take a few deep breaths. And I can, I can totally understand why this would upset a parent and why a parent would react in anger or in like, I've told you a million times, I don't know how to tell you again. Right?

Shawna Rodrigues: 25:28

Yeah.

Lori Mitchell: 25:28

I totally understand how that could happen. But because of my background, I knew what was going on. And I was able to respond in a very compassionate and patient way. And I'm so eternally grateful for that. Because it was, you know, well, we've talked about this, and I always, always very, very careful of using the language, you know, daddy died. He is dead. Right? Because phrases like, passed away, we lost someone, for a child, they don't understand that. It's too abstract. Right? Well, lost, well lost in what way? Let's go find them, right? And so I was always very careful about that, too. Well, you know, we talked about this daddy died, he's, he's probably not going to be at home. I know he's not going to be at home. And he would usually respond with, well, maybe he will be. And I would say, Well, yeah, I guess we'll wait and see. And, and it was months, but he finally got there. But when he did, when he finally understood, that's when his separation anxiety went into full force. And let me tell you, this child, shook the shame and meet any form of shame I ever had was shook right out of me. Because the way his grief and pain came out, there was no way that I could be embarrassed by his behavior, I could only just want to comfort him and love him, and respond empathetically and compassionately. And I'm very, very thankful that the other people in his life at that time, also had that perspective. Because it's very easy to comfort, a crying child, a sobbing child, it is very different in comforting a child who throws things and yells and can't calm down and kicks and screams, and cannot express what they're feeling because they don't have the language or understanding of what's happening. And so, that was much harder than the question of, you know, will daddy be home when we get there? This is so much harder. I'm very glad to say, and it amazes me every day, how well adjusted he's become, and we've worked through so much of that. It's not gone forever. But because he has been reassured and because he has learned tools to cope, and because he knows unconditional love, because of that unconditional love.

Shawna Rodrigues: 25:28

yes,

Lori Mitchell: 25:54

he has grown so much. And he has a reassurance about him. And an understanding that allows him to express what he needs, how he's feeling, in a way that's not destructive. This child would say, I'm not sad. I'm not sad. He didn't cry for over a year. Like, we had to teach him to cry. And by we, I mean, counselors and teachers and, you know, all of us work together, because his behaviors, were not an indicator that, you know, he was, there was bad parenting, his behaviors were not bad, quote, unquote, right?

Shawna Rodrigues: 29:19

Yeah,

Lori Mitchell: 29:20

his behaviors were because of his pain. And I think and this is just my perception. I think that he thought if he wasn't sad, you know, anger was a way to shield himself from part of the pain, right? Part of the vulnerability. If I'm not sad, I'm fine. And then what would happen is just like adults who you know, I'm fine, I'm fine. I'm just going to keep moving. I'm just going to keep myself busy. I'm just gonna go to work. I'm just going to hide myself and whatever I can, just like an adult, it would just, it would come out. It would, it would work its way out. And, and for him, it was in very, just really difficult ways.

Shawna Rodrigues: 30:10

Definitely. And the more you, you push it down, the more that it comes out in other ways, and those emotions are so challenging to identify and experience. And so with your, your training with grief work, is there a tool and stuff to address that?

Lori Mitchell: 30:25

Yeah, absolutely. Some of the things that we use with grief coaching, is reenvisioning. Right? Reenvisioning, and I'm not saying like, I have a 10 year plan. I'm like, you know, next week, I want it to be better, right? Today, today was really hard, how can I make tomorrow better? And a lot of that is simple things like, write three things down that you're grateful for. And it can be really little things like, often, I'll be like, I'm grateful for peppermint tea, those small things, I'm grateful that we live in a safe neighborhood, it doesn't have to be these big things. But when you start recognizing things you're grateful for, or things that you delight in, you begin noticing them. And it does make things feel less heavy, because you're starting to see the light and other things. A lot of the big work is reframing our thoughts. I've experienced, and I know a lot of people who are, it, you know, grieving, especially intimate loss, there's usually feelings of guilt, there's feelings of regret, there's, you know, I wish this could have been different, and anger, especially people who are grieving a death by suicide, there's unknowns, and it adds another layer. So being able to kind of capture those thoughts, and then really start to question them. And then almost build a story that you can live with. Because a lot of memories, a lot of what we talk about, a lot of what we relive in our minds are stories that we know and we've held on to. And the stories that I tell my children are really going to be the stories that they know about their dad. So the stories that I choose to focus on, and the stories that I create for the ones that I don't have an answer to, those shape how I think and believe and feel about really my every day, and especially about my grief, and the whole situation. I also think that this idea of loss, and this idea of never, really makes the hole feel bigger, and emptier. And when we can create small honoring practices and rituals that connect us to our loved one, that invite our loved one to be part of our life now, can really, we're not going to fill the void, but I think there's comfort there. Something that my kids and I do, and it's especially during this time of year, you know, when we say holidays, our big stuff starts right before Halloween. Halloween was my husband's favorite holiday, he could always show up at that time of year for us. And you know, you walk around and see families trick or treating together in their, you know, family costumes. And it's a reminder that part of our family, you know, he's not here physically. But, you know, I personally believe that he's here. And he's facilitating things in ways that he couldn't when he was on this earth. So we would generally pick family themed costumes. So, that's one of our traditions that I've tried to carry on, my oldest son loves getting out his dad's decorations and putting them up and it's just part of how we stay connected. And that continues for all holidays. But one, one practice that kind of works through all of those is we have a candle. My kids don't light it themselves. We do have battery operated candles too, but to have a candle lit when we're missing him and it always stays in the same spot. And there is just something about the light and the glow of a candle that just makes us feel his presence a little bit. You know, it's like, it's like, like I said, inviting, inviting him in. And I think there's like life, life to light. You know, there's a little bit of life to light. Yeah.

Lori Mitchell: 31:22

And giving space for that. I think that's an important thing. Lori and I spoke a little before we started recording and talked about, because like, after I lost my mom, my realization that it's been more than a decade since we lost her. And it was something that again, I had that thing that it would go away at some point in time, and it doesn't go away, it just comes up at different times, and still surprises me sometimes where it comes up, and feels like it's so, so fresh. And to have something like that to be an acknowledgement of that. And I will have days that luckily, my current partner, and I've had previous partners that will get the, I will have days where I will just like start bawling and be like, I miss my mom. And it's amazing how it can just come from nowhere.

Lori Mitchell: 35:56

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I've talked a lot about my husband, but my brother was 21. And, and that loss was like, the rug ripped out underneath me, I did not know that someone that I could love that much that was a part of my life and my world could, could be gone. I did not know. I did not know. And, and that because of all that I learned, and also, it was, it was 10 years, between the death of my brother and the death of my husband. And I understood that though 10 years had passed, I still miss my brother, as much as, you know, I miss him, I missed that he wasn't there for my kid's birthday, I missed that he's not that fun Uncle, you know, teaching my kids the things that I wish they wouldn't learn, you know, and having crazy adventures. And so, when my husband died, I had an understanding that I would miss him, I will miss him for the rest of my life, I will miss him every time my kids meet a milestone, you know, we will be missing him for all of it. But I also knew that because of my kids ages, we couldn't just put it away.

Shawna Rodrigues: 37:25

Yeah.

Lori Mitchell: 37:26

It wasn't going to go away. Time does not heal all wounds, it takes a lot of work, and a lot of intention, and a lot of talking and sharing to heal a lot of those layers. And so that's kind of what I went right to work trying to do.

Shawna Rodrigues: 37:46

Yes, yes. And that candle is beautiful way to share with each other, that you're missing him and to have that peace to have him still there. And I think that there's probably people listening that have lost somebody this holiday season or are going to see somebody this holiday season who's lost somebody and to be able to have that way to acknowledge and connect on that loss. And to be able to remember somebody and to acknowledge that I think is one more beautiful way. So when people talk to you after your loss of your husband, because I feel like people don't know what to say, and they don't know how to acknowledge and do that. So, can we give words of, to somebody who's listening who hasn't experienced that? Or they have experienced, but they still don't know what to say to somebody else? What are some of the things that they can say to kids or to adults who have lost a parent or a partner or a child? Like what are some things you can say?

Lori Mitchell: 38:36

Yeah, this is a great question. First of all, I want to let people know that even with the best of intentions, what you say may not be received in the way you want it to be. And that's okay. That is okay. Part of your job as a person who loves someone who is grieving is to accept them in whatever way they can show up. And sometimes our best of intentions are just not received in the way that we meant. And, you know, with some healing, people might, you know, realize that. But I think one of, one of the things to avoid is that, at least statement.

Shawna Rodrigues: 39:21

Yes, right. Oh, good point. Very good point thing.

Lori Mitchell: 39:24

Anything that follows at least, is probably just better unsaid because those, those can rub the wrong way really quickly. Number one, acknowledge that this is terrible. This is really hard. This is really difficult, you're not alone. You're not alone, even on days when you feel like you're all alone, and it's heavy and it's lonely, you know, you're not alone. And this is the point where you know, instead of saying if you need anything, let me now, that's one of the moments like, give them like, here's what how I'm willing to show up for you. So if you're the person who's like, Listen, if it's 4am, text me, you know, if you're feeling alone, please call me. And I will make sure I show up for you. If you need anything at the grocery store, let me know. And if you're at the grocery store, check in, what do you need? Because a lot of times, like, processing grief takes an extreme amount of energy. And it's like, you have brain fog. So your brain's not even working. So that blanket statement of like, if you need anything, please let me know, I'm not gonna remember that you said that. Right? And two, I don't even know what I need. I don't even know, I wouldn't even know what to ask for. So if you're the person who's like, I'm willing to buy you milk once a week, like, do you need milk, like, that's how you show up, you know, I had friends. And this is kind of getting on, like what you can do but random cards, the person who calls once a week, like, I'm not tracking that. It's not, it's not until years later that I realized you called me once a week, every week for the first 18 months, right? I'm not tracking it. But that's how you show up for someone. So, what to say, one, acknowledge that this is really awful, avoid the at least statements. And then, you know, give comfort, love, and if you want to help, give like, tangible, something like I'm willing to.

Shawna Rodrigues: 41:36

That's beautiful. But I don't know if this helps or not, but I send, because I remember when I lost my mom, and when I've gone through stressful times that I can't track messages, I can't track anything. And so when I send messages to somebody who's lost somebody, I say, you don't need to respond to me. Just know that I'm here if you need me and write me back, if you want something, and I should do better offering this specific but like, I will say like, do not feel like you need to respond to me. And if you have somebody who's lost somebody and they don't respond to you, don't you dare take it personally because they'll remember that. Because the capacity when somebody's like actively in laws and trying to address what they're going through, like, they don't, they don't have the capacity for that. And so, so the first thing they say is like do not add me to somebody you need to text back because that's the last thing you do worried about right now, that and they usually text first, call, because I feel like that's something you could ignore easier if you need to ignore.

Lori Mitchell: 42:29

Yeah, and I mean, since you know, we're talking about the holidays, if, if you're offering just been on holiday with someone who is definitely if it's like very early on, in the grief process, something that can be super helpful is having a safe space for that person to go when they just need a minute, you know, in like, before the event even happens, providing that will give so much comfort that the person might actually show up.

Shawna Rodrigues: 43:01

Hmm,

Lori Mitchell: 43:02

not wanting to do social things is actually part of my work has been an understanding of, I need to do better with making connections, local connections and friendships, and I need to work on it. Like, I need to show up, I need to reach out, I need to, this is something I want in my life. So, I need to be taking small steps every day to maintaining that. Early on I didn't, like, I didn't even know that I needed that. I didn't want to show up. I didn't want to go anywhere. I'm like, I don't even, I barely have the energy to take a shower like, I don't, I don't want to get dressed and like go to your brunch where everybody's looking cute. And I'm just like, why am I here? So if you are inviting people to those events, you're hosting someone, like, let them know like, we don't care. We don't care if you come in your pajamas. Like, we just want you to be there. You don't even have to talk to anybody. Just come let us love on you. Let us feed you. And then you can leave super early, just come and stay for 20 minutes. And that would be enough for us.

Shawna Rodrigues: 44:08

And there's a secret room where if you bring a book, you can go sit in that room and read or be by yourself and we'll let you lock the door. And yes, the people who came to my mom's funeral in their hotel room had a separate bedroom, and they invited me back to their hotel room to go take a nap in that room at my mom's funeral. I still remember which friends those were. And I did take a nap in there. Thank you to this day for that. Because that was what I needed was a place to take a nap.

Lori Mitchell: 44:34

Yes, for sure. Yes. It's like everybody's going to need a minute.

Shawna Rodrigues: 44:41

Yes, that makes a big difference. Yes, this is helpful. So for folks like what's the takeaway that we can give people? I think the takeaway about how to honor people who are dealing with grief this holiday season I think is a big takeaway to be able to think of their one friend who has a loss. I think this is a hard thing too because during the holidays I didn't even remember what is the first Thanksgiving without my mom until I had a breakdown at work and realize, oh, that's what I'm having to break down. Because this person is freaking out over their second Thanksgiving without their grandfather, it is my first time without my mom. No wonder I'm breaking down right now. But um, so to remember who your friends are who've lost somebody this past year and give them some acknowledgement and space, because the holidays are typically a time where that resurges a little bit. So to be able to do that, possibly. Is that something we can give us a takeaway for folks? Or what are your thoughts, Lori?

Lori Mitchell: 45:31

Sure. Yeah. Especially the space like,

Shawna Rodrigues: 45:34

yeah,

Lori Mitchell: 45:35

like, here, I made you cookies. I left them on your porch.

Shawna Rodrigues: 45:38

Yeah. yeah.

Lori Mitchell: 45:39

Right?

Shawna Rodrigues: 45:39

You don't have to talk to me, and if you don't want see me, let me give you the space for this. Yes. But I'm acknowledging.

Lori Mitchell: 45:45

Something that was very, very helpful to me, my husband died at the beginning of November. And so, Thanksgiving and Christmas, like, I don't even really remember, I got to be honest. But my mom, my mom's friends at work, wanted to help with shopping. And so, I just gave them like, some ideas. I actually think I started a list, you know, how you can do like shopping lists. And, and my mom helped me out and, and they basically, like, got together and just made sure that the stuff was bought, and sent it to my house. And then I actually asked, I'm trying to remember that actually, that year, I don't think I wrapped presents, but I don't know if I did.

Shawna Rodrigues: 46:41

If there's somebody who wrapped presents, then that somebody was amazing.

Lori Mitchell: 46:43

Nobody wrapped presents and it was amazing. And thank you for listening. But the following year, I actually asked my morning nanny, and like, listen, can I just have stuff sent to your house? And will you just like take care of it? And she did. And it was amazing. And it took this huge pressure and weight off. So that is something too. Like, Hey, I forgot the offer?

Shawna Rodrigues: 46:43

Yes, yeah.

Lori Mitchell: 46:45

Yes.

Shawna Rodrigues: 46:45

You didn't have to, it's the time thing. You didn't have to buy the presents, just offer to pick it out for them, so they have one less thing to think about. Yes. That's brilliant. I love that. So yeah, so offer those things, connect with people who've experienced loss and offer those things for them. I love it. And if you're somebody who has experienced loss, don't hesitate to ask somebody to do those things for you.

Lori Mitchell: 47:30

That's actually,

Shawna Rodrigues: 47:30

you can do that.

Lori Mitchell: 47:31

Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt, but that's actually part of the program, is learning and taking action in engaging your support system. And learning how to like, write down things as you notice things that you need, like, keep a list, and then start asking, and it's so difficult. It was so difficult for me. It's one of the biggest, biggest obstacles of my life, is asking for help. Yeah, so that whole, like, let me know if you need something, I'm not gonna do that. Because then I would have to admit that I couldn't do it all on my own.

Shawna Rodrigues: 48:09

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yes. So as we wrap up, what is something that you do for self care, Lori? What do you do take care of yourself?

Lori Mitchell: 48:17

Um, it's interesting, because I actually did this this morning. I was, and this happens, I think, a lot to people who are grieving. Even years later, I was feeling just completely untethered this morning, like, just lost, like, I can see all the things I have to do, I am not able to take action on any of them. I can't focus. And so, I just, I knew I needed to pause, like the answer was not crawl in bed in the fetal position, and not do anything. Like we're going to do something, where you're going to do what we can do, but I paused. I did some breathing exercises. It's so like, I know, it sounds so cliche, but I lit a candle, I put some music on. You know, I made the comfort space. And I was able to move forward, but only because I took that time to pause and get centered and get grounded. And, you know, I like well, if I can do these two things, if I can do these two things, it'll get me started. And it did. And I was able to have a productive day. So yeah.

Shawna Rodrigues: 49:43

Nice. So breathing, nice music, candle and narrow it to two things to start so you can get on the right page. I love that. That's beautiful. That's wonderful. And here on The Grit Show we have the Color of Grits. Our series of coloring books. And so we offer each of our guests as a thank you for coming in and sharing your wisdom with our audience. We offer you your own coloring book. So would you like the, so either Vintage Mermaid and Magnificent Ocean or You've Got This, which is inspirational quotes. Which one would you like a copy of?

Lori Mitchell: 50:17

I would like inspirational quotes, because we all need some.

Shawna Rodrigues: 50:22

All right, we're gonna get you a copy of the inspirational quote. I will get your mailing address, so you can have a nice little surprise in the mail for you this holiday season.

Lori Mitchell: 50:30

That makes me so happy.

Shawna Rodrigues: 50:31

Well, glad, we, we've liked that. We want you to be happy. That's perfect. Well, good. Thank you so much for being with us today. I really appreciate you sharing your wisdom and we need to get people connected to you for some your, you do one on one grief work. And you also have a program coming out in January with a class do you want to talk to us a little bit about that and tell them where to find you?

Lori Mitchell: 50:52

Sure, I actually just started with my co host an Instagram account, EmbracingGrief.Life. And that's the name of our website as well. And so you can find my one on one coaching option at my website. And I'm going to be creating a course on creating conversations with children about death and grief using picture books. Something that really helped my children is having the object so they didn't have to have the words. So, it could be, can we read this book? And it was a book that always reminded them of their dad or is a book about grief. And so we could read it together and it would start a conversation. Or they would say, you know, can we light daddy's candle? So they didn't have to say, I'm missing Dad, I'm feeling sad. It was, it was the indication, the object kind of gave the indicator that maybe we needed to do some quiet work together and share some stories and talk and get some comfort.

Shawna Rodrigues: 51:59

Hmm, I love that. That's beautiful. And I think that's great for adults to know to help with kids. Because again, that adults kind of want to run from grief sometimes that it has something that they can help with the kids can have something that they can move through at their pace. And to have that as an object. I love it, especially too when you have candles that you just turned on. That's perfect.

Lori Mitchell: 52:17

Coming soon, like very soon, I'm going to have a list of my five favorite children's books. And that'll be available on our website that you can download. It's coming very soon. And, and the course will be out in January.

Shawna Rodrigues: 52:32

Perfect. So we will have the links to the website and Instagram on the show notes. So you guys can all find Lori there and also the link to the podcast so that they can learn more and check out the podcast. When do you guys release your episodes?

Lori Mitchell: 52:44

You're much better about being consistent about releasing episodes. And we are. It's usually bi-weekly, I try to get them out Thursdays and Sundays. So we do a full episode, we usually release on Sundays, which isn't a typical day for podcast to be released. But it's, it tends to be a family day. And people who are grieving really close family members, sometimes Sunday's are kind of difficult. And then I try to do what I call the grief brief, which is just a few takeaways and some resources and I try to release those really short bonus episodes on Thursdays.

Shawna Rodrigues: 53:19

That's great. Thank you so much for being here, Lori. It was wonderful. You had a lot to offer.

Lori Mitchell: 53:24

Thank you, Shawna. I really enjoyed it. I always like sharing my story and helping anybody that I can through this process.

Shawna Rodrigues: 53:33

It's important, thank you. I hope you're finding ways to enjoy yourself this holiday season and taking moments just to yourself. As we talked about a little earlier in this show, it's kinda important to do that, amongst all the hustle and bustle. If you're interested in getting coloring pages as part of that process, you can always go to our website, thegritshow.com and get your copy of our free coloring pages. Or you're also welcome to grab some coloring books as gifts to those that you are buying for this season, or for yourself as part of your rituals as well for self care. I'm glad you joined us. And in case no one's told you lately, you are the only one of you that this world has got and you've only got so much time to do the things that you care the most about and that are important to you. Make sure to prioritize those. I look forward to connecting with you again next Tuesday. Until then, take care.