Bounce Back from Burnout w/ Dr. Mary Sanders -27

We feel it is important to make our podcast transcripts available for accessibility. We use quality artificial intelligence tools to make it possible for us to provide this resource to our audience. We do have human eyes reviewing this, but they will rarely be 100% accurate. We appreciate your patience with the occasional errors you will find in our transcriptions. If you find an error in our transcription, or if you would like to use a quote, or verify what was said, please feel free to reach out to us at connect@37by27.com.

Dr. Mary Sanders 0:00

So it's unfortunate because I still to this day, I believe in the power of the service of being a chiropractor or an energetic healer. But now, now I understand the importance of energetic boundaries so that I can still be of service and support others, but I'm not giving my energy away.

Shawna Rodrigues 0:19

Yeah,

Dr. Mary Sanders 0:19

so I know how to establish a better energetic boundary so that I don't become burned out.

Shawna Rodrigues 0:26

Welcome to The Grit Show. Growth on purpose. I'm your host, Shawna Rodrigues, and I'm happy to be here with you as your guide, for all of us growing together as seekers, and thrivers.

Shawna Rodrigues 0:40

Dr. Mary has over 25 years of experience as a self employed businesswoman, and a consultant. And 15 years ago, she experienced burnout firsthand and crashed hard. At the time, she didn't have the necessary tools or resources to navigate this difficult period of her life. So she panicked and ran away to the other side of the world. Now, she is wholeheartedly committed to supporting women who wants to transform the way they show up in this world, and experienced thriving health, happiness and purpose, utilizing tools of energy medicine, chiropractic, functional blood chemistry analysis and positive psychology. Dr. Mary earned her doctorate in Chiropractic in Logan College of Chiropractic in St. Louis, Missouri. She completed her Certificate in Positive Psychology from the Wholebeing Institute in Lennox, MA, and studied under Dr. Tal Ben Shahar. In addition, she completed her Masters in Intuition Medicine® from the Academy of Intuition Medicine® in Sausalito, CA, and studied under Dr. Francesca McCartney. We are so glad to have her and all this wisdom with us today. Welcome, Dr. Mary.

Dr. Mary Sanders 1:52

Oh, sincerely Shawna, it is my honor to be here with you today. Before we get started, can I just sing your praises a little bit?

Shawna Rodrigues 2:01

Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.

Dr. Mary Sanders 2:05

And, you know, I was thinking about it this morning in the industry of podcasting alone, only 30% are women.

Shawna Rodrigues 2:15

Yes, I know. It's ridiculous.

Dr. Mary Sanders 2:17

It's very low. And so your voice is making such a positive impact for the industry as a whole, but specifically for your listeners. And as you talk about grit, I mean, you are a walking example. I mean, you are a living, breathing female showing perseverance and resilience and get to, you know, stick to it and just being present for all the various different guests, such as myself that show up on the show that get an audience to be able to speak their authentic truth as well. So I just have to say, thank you so much.

Shawna Rodrigues 2:54

Oh, Dr. Mary, that means a lot. I appreciate that. Authenticity, and being able to share this information is really important to me. So I really appreciate you bringing attention to that. That means a lot. Thank you genuinely appreciate you doing that. That's wonderful.

Dr. Mary Sanders 3:07

It's the truth. It's the truth, and you have experience behind you and under your belt. So I'm so thankful.

Shawna Rodrigues 3:15

Thank you. That is wonderful. Well, this is one way to combat burnout is to have amazing people who recognize you. So, thank you.

Dr. Mary Sanders 3:24

You're right, we do need to surround ourselves with more positive influence. I think that is one of the positive psychology tools that we have available for us when it comes to overcoming and sustaining burnout. Burnout is so common Shawna, I can't even begin to tell you depending upon the researcher that you listen to or you read, we're looking at at least 50% of the population is experiencing burnout at any given time. It's prevalent. It's absolutely prevalent. And it's even more so since the pandemic in this, this era that we're calling the great resignation where people are waking up and saying, no more, no more am I going to tolerate the limitations within or corporate America. No more am I going to sacrifice my well being and my health and my mental state for the sake of a job, for this sake of a paycheck. I mean, obviously, you know, we all get to work for income to be able to sustain our, our lives. I'm not saying that everybody should quit their job. But I think that people are really finding what that means for them.

Shawna Rodrigues 4:30

Yes, but I think it is important to start questioning that and to start to recognize it. This is so much of our lives and so much of our time that we need to pay attention to how we're doing it in a way they can also replenish and be joyful and good for us instead of just something that completely drains us. And I think that being able to examine that is important. So, with your, your work, like obviously you work with a lot of individuals who have experienced burnout, can you talk more about how people even start to recognize that they're experiencing the burnout?

Dr. Mary Sanders 4:57

So, my formal training as a chiropractor for the last 20 years, dealing with the physical body is intimately they do, stress and burnout can manifest physically in a variety of different ways. So, you know, we can talk about how some of the physical signs of exhaustion or frequent illnesses or perhaps to compromise the immune system, maybe they're even showing up, you know, having blood sugar imbalances or adrenal system that are out of whack. But I see and I have felt the emotional signs of burnout as well. So, you know, when people are experiencing a lack of self worth, or they're experiencing helplessness or loneliness, those are some of the signs that lead up to the isolation, you know, with people that are experiencing burnout.

Shawna Rodrigues 5:51

Yeah.

Dr. Mary Sanders 5:51

So, you know, we talk about the three-pronged approach, the physical find, the emotional find, the behavioral find. It's a plethora of symptoms and signs that people demonstrate when they're going through burnout.

Shawna Rodrigues 6:04

Yes. So, is it one place that it starts, or it varies for everyone that they start to feel it more emotionally or physically or where do they start to see it more?

Dr. Mary Sanders 6:12

You know what, that's such a great question, Shawna. And I don't think I've ever had anybody asked me that. So, I don't know if I have read any research that clinically says this is where it start. I think from a holistic paradigm, I think it's based upon the individual and where their weaknesses or stressors lie.

Shawna Rodrigues 6:31

Yes, yeah, that makes sense. I remember that I had a sibling that when they were younger, they felt like, their stomach, they would get stomach aches. And I always felt that that's where their stresses were, they would get stomach aches, and I was somebody who, I was prone to headaches later in life to migraines, it's like, that's where my stress would first manifest. It was with that. So I feel like, we each have our, our points that our bodies where we start to feel things, and sometimes our bodies are what we listen to the most. So, that's where we kind of recognize things the most.

Dr. Mary Sanders 6:57

Yes, in fact, I would love for people to listen to their bodies more. Period. Listen to your body more, because the body is communicating to you in ways that you can't even imagine. So, if we can slow down and minimize the distractions that we have in our environment, and really spend some introspective time in silence or reflection, then I think that we can really watch what's happening mentally and physically, to look for those signs and so that we can be a little bit more proactive, versus being reactive, in the long term.

Shawna Rodrigues 7:32

Yes, exactly. And to recognize that that is our body trying to tell us something instead of something else, we need to ignore life to keep pushing through. That's another worry with a definition of grit, as some people interpret it as the need to ignore and push through, instead of actually not being that. So it's important to have these conversations to help people listen to themselves and why we have experts, like, you can come on to talk about how we need to be listening to our bodies a little bit more and understanding what it's trying to tell us. Well, so what are the three-pronged definition of burnout in when you are at work and you're doing that like, what are, we talked a little bit about that when you and I were speaking before the show started. Can you talk more about that prong's definition of burnout when you're at work and trying to decide if that's what you're experiencing?

Dr. Mary Sanders 8:16

So, I have to share with you that I went through my own professional burnout. And it led to a personal and physical issue for me. So my interest was kind of self serving to really identify what is burnout. It's kind of a wastebasket of a definition. It's kind of like saying, Oh, I have chronic fatigue syndrome, or I'm just stressed. I mean, those are really broad general diagnoses. And so upon diving into the literature a little bit more, I found what is called the Maslach Burnout Inventory. And if you Google it, you can find this survey online. And what's really nice is that this researcher has looked at three different areas of burnout to help clinically define the level of burnout and where it actually exists. And this is such an effective tool that a lot of different HR industries within corporate America is using this inventory to better identify where the person is burnout, so that they can make it specific to treatment, specific for them to assist them in getting over burnout as opposed to losing them as an employee.

Dr. Mary Sanders 8:35

Oh, that's amazing. I'm so glad it's being utilized and recognized as a way to support and address it. That's incredible.

Dr. Mary Sanders 9:35

Absolutely. And so what this researcher has done is she has said clearly stated that there are three different components in the definition of burnout and the first is quite obviously everybody can say well, okay, there's exhaustion. So there's emotional and physical exhaustion. She agrees with that. Then she talks about cynicism. And cynicism is the second branch of burnout and it talks about a person feeling pessimistic or cynical about working in their position or the organization as a whole. So if somebody is distrusting of the organization or distrusting of their superior or distrusting of their team, then that affects their disposition and they can then become burnt out.

Shawna Rodrigues: 10:22

Yes.

Dr. Mary Sanders: 10:24

The third component, which I think is brilliant, is that she talks about professional efficacy. And efficacy is not efficiency, it's not how fast you can do your job. But efficacy is the ability in the skill set to do the job that has been assigned to you within the parameters of the leadership. So, you know, you can say, let's say you've been in an industry for 20 or 30 years, and you develop this skill set that you know, is that you are capable of doing this job. But if you're in a certain level of limitation where somebody, your boss, or superior is saying, you have to do it a certain way, that's going to perhaps hinder your ability to do the job, which leads into and adds to burnout.

Shawna Rodrigues: 11:14

Yeah,

Dr. Mary Sanders: 11:14

so we have emotional exhaustion, we have cynicism, and professional efficacy. So, she tests those three components individually. So obviously, as a person who's taking the test, you could score it and you know, those scores on all three of them, on all three categories, and you clearly are in a state of burnout. And or you could just be a strong negative score within the exhaustion component only. And that just means that you're from overextending.

Shawna Rodrigues: 11:47

Yes,

Dr. Mary Sanders: 11:48

you just overextended and it could be overextended at work, you could be overextended at home, you could be overextended in other areas of your life. So, perhaps that person needs more time off, maybe that person needs a nap in the middle of the day. Maybe that person needs a four day workweek. Who knows? So you can see where this was going. So, let's say somebody shows up, and they just have a low score and cynicism that just shows up as the person being disengaged.

Shawna Rodrigues: 12:17

Yes, yes. And a lot of the conversations right now are just about the disengagement. But it's actually could be any of those components.

Dr. Mary Sanders: 12:24

Right. And so then if you're like, Oh, I've got a person that disengaged, because they don't work well within their team, or they don't like their superior, or they are having some level of distrust, would we be able to mean this employee if we put them with a different leader, with a different group. So then they can say, okay, we're trying to problem solve this, as opposed to just saying, I blanket this person's burnout. We just need to let them go or, you know, to be able to support them as an individual. Last but not least in the area of professional efficacy. If somebody just scores negatively within this one parameter, then they just feel ineffective.

Shawna Rodrigues: 12:24

Yeah,

Dr. Mary Sanders: 12:25

it's like the work just doesn't matter, even though they have this skill set of doing it, what are they working towards? What's the bigger picture? Are they in alignment with the purpose of the organization? So, I like this inventory. And I think it's a really effective tool to really helping a person identify which areas that they are falling weak within.

Shawna Rodrigues: 13:27

Yes. And I also wonder, like, I had this conversation with a couple of friends. So, my way, way back, background is social work. And I'd moved into kind of more administrative and leadership roles and 10 different things. But and he's helping professions. But I think that also goes in the medical field in different areas, when your job is helping others and teachers and different things that sometimes your burnout, like you feel guilty for being burned out, because you came in to help people. And so you feel guilty when you are feeling that drain. And like it's harder to like admit that that efficacy piece especially you aren't able to be effective, because you are completely drained, you are not able to see this and you're feeling, then you start to feel the, the negative pieces or you start to have the cynicism that comes next. I feel like they follow each other. We start to have cynicism, and you have a hard time seeing it because you don't want to be that person. You don't want to feel that way. And so it's harder to feel that burnout and to understand that something needs to change because you are in such a bad place because you don't want to be there. You came into this field and you do this work because you love it. And you love helping people. But sometimes, the systems, the world at large with a pandemic, like different things have just gotten you to a place where it's just too much. Or you work in a field, I have friends that work in hospice, have friends that work in hospitals, and it can just be really hard to see that time and time again, what's happening with people and it can, it can result in that and if you don't address it, it just keeps getting worse and keeps taking a toll on you.

Dr. Mary Sanders: 14:53

Shawna, I have to share with you the diff researcher, you hit it right. You hit the topic and the industry right on the head, and that she has a specific survey for those in healthcare. She has a specific survey for those in education. So I agree with you experientially, I can honestly say that, obviously, when I was making the decision as to what I wanted to do professionally, I wanted to be of service. I wanted to be of service to other people. And I happen to have been blessed with a good set of hands. And so you know, I knew that chiropractic was my avenue. But I'm here to tell you that because the demands and the pace of which my business grew, I was burned out in 10 years, and I was flatlined for 15 years. So it's unfortunate because it still to this day, I believe in the power of the service of being a chiropractor, or an energetic healer. But now, now I understand the importance of energetic boundaries, so that I can still be of service and support others, but I'm not giving my energy away. So I know how to establish a better energetic boundary so that I don't become burned out.

Shawna Rodrigues: 16:05

Yes. And they don't teach you how to prevent a burnout and how to take care of yourself. But if anything, they push you and push you and push you and get you burned out sooner. And so there's all these amazing professionals who are just done. And then they are causing challenges in the field instead of helping the fields even though they were these great gifts in the field for so long, because they are burnt out, and they don't want to be a hindrance. But they are, just because they've, they've drained themselves so much that they can't give like, they used to. And, yes, it's so hard. And I mean, that's why I'm no longer in my field as well, like, I got burned out as well. So like that, that does happen, it is a thing. And so being able to recognize it sooner and address it sooner, and taking steps to support it is a big thing. So this is a big important conversation.

Dr. Mary Sanders: 16:52

You know, I agree with you, I wish that all service industries were taught an energy technique that I learned at the Academy of Intuition Medicine, and it is so simple to do that I think that if people could just take a few minutes at the end of the day, and collectively in a grounded state, connect energetically to those people that they were observing that day, and just give back any and all energy that you may have exchanged that day. And then the crucial step is to receive the energy that is right to yours back into your energy system. And then that way, you literally can neutrally separate from those groups of people that you were of service to that day, and that you still reclaim the energy, your lifeforce energy that you know, and that you depend on for your longevity, returned back to you, so then you can go home. It is a beautiful technique. And so you can go home in the evening, and then be more full of yourself, which enables you to be more present for your loved ones. And it's unfortunate, because when you give as much energy as we do in the service industry, that when we go home to the people that mean the most to us, we don't have the energy to be able to exchange with them. So neutral separation is the name of that technique. That is something that I teach all of my clients and my patients how to do, because it's so easy and so effective.

Shawna Rodrigues: 18:23

Yes. And I wonder even about my friends who are mothers and like, that how much you give to your children and to your family and for life, I think of my dad sometimes to how much he gets to my siblings. So when they're adults, that like this piece of being able to, to separate and give that energy back that there is that separation, even just that mental piece of like recognizing that this is what I need to take back. This is where we're at. And this is the boundaries of those pieces. And doing that, that is beautiful and important. Dr. Mary, that is so valuable. I really appreciate that.

Dr. Mary Sanders: 18:58

And the key word that you just said there Shawna is boundary. And I think boundaries are healthy. And somewhere, somehow in the service industry, they teach us because we are there to be of service and to care for another person, that we really have no boundaries. And I think that that is to our detriment.

Shawna Rodrigues: 19:16

Yes, absolutely. Yes. And that's no way, that's the way to be. That's how we all get burnt out. So, so quickly, and I wonder I wish there could be surveys that people did like every year where they were at and how quickly that inventory was slowed down. And I really think that 10 years is probably about the marker 10 or 15 years, and people hanging and I love it used to be flatlined after 15 because I feel like I can, no people that can identify with that. It's probably about where they flatlined as well, but it was just too much. And the systems that we have out there just aren't in favor of people being able to do that for, for 20 or 40 years because it just takes so much from them to be able to be of service like that. So, and you actually have and I know we'll talk more about this at the end a little more too, but you have an amazing program that's actually meant to help people to bounce back from burnouts. Can you talk a little bit more about your program that you have?

Dr. Mary Sanders: 20:03

Yes, I'd love to. I curated this program thinking about the integrative approach to treating the whole person. So, there are many different techniques that can assist and facilitate people overcoming burnout. But very few of them actually look at the full, holistic mind, body, spirit approach. And so I pride myself on this five month program, and that we have the capacity and the time to really dive into some of the components mentally, what you can do to help support yourself, being able to recognize the neuroscience behind meditation, and to look at the science behind positive psychology, and grit being one of those components of positive psychology. So we incorporate techniques and tools over those five months for the individuals within the program on how they can, in, in a sustainable way be of a self resource for the self filling resource. So that's the mental component. The other component that we utilize within this program is obviously the body. I do some functional blood chemistry analysis to get a benchmark as to where people's biomarkers are currently at. We look at the hormonal system, the endocrine system, specifically the biomarkers coming out of the adrenal system, which is just, just hormones.

Shawna Rodrigues: 21:34

Yes.

Dr. Mary Sanders: 21:35

So we look at things like epinephrine, norepinephrine, DHEA, we look at the cortisol, we look at how those things are functioning in an integrative kind of format, so that we can help support the physical body with nutraceuticals with whole foods with, you know, changes within their diet. So we want to address the body component. Now we have the mind-body, and then we put the spirit in there, too, for the integrative approach. And we teach the tools of energy medicine. And just like I was talking about the neutral separation, that's an energy technique. So we teach people how to auto calibrate their energy centers, so that they can be a little bit more grounded. And they can be more present and present time consciousness, be more available for human interactions and relationships and be more present for themselves. So that's the three prong approach that I present in this five month program. And it's a lot.

Shawna Rodrigues: 22:45

Yeah,

Dr. Mary Sanders: 22:45

and the transformation, I'll tell you the best thing for me, the most rewarding thing for me is to witness the transformation that I see within these individuals where they're like, holy cow, you know, what, how I would have responded to this just two or three months ago is like night and day, how I responded to this conflict at work is completely different. And it's just really amazing. It's really amazing to watch and to experience. It has been an honor to facilitate that program. And we're starting a whole new cohort come January. I always, I always keep my website up to date. I will give you dates today. But there are some things that I'm shifting, so I don't have a concrete date. But all of that information is available on my website. And that's a living, living organism and it's found.

Dr. Mary Sanders: 23:00

No, that's perfect. And you also got to mention, I was so excited to hear about this. I don't know how much I talked about in this folks on my podcast, but I love Costa Rica. And Dr. Mary is also doing a week long retreat in Costa Rica in March, which is a time of year I've actually been to Costa Rica. And it's fabulous there that time of year. And so you're all set? Do you have a name for that retreat?

Dr. Mary Sanders: 24:02

We do. It's called, Embody Your Soul retreat.

Shawna Rodrigues: 24:06

I love it.

Dr. Mary Sanders: 24:07

I know.

Shawna Rodrigues: 24:08

Definitely everyone's like they're going to the show notes going, where's that website? How can I learn more about this stuff? So that is amazing for people to keep in mind as an opportunity to do either a week long retreat or a five month program to really like dig deep and be able to look at how to look at your burnout and bounce back from burnout. That's like amazing. These opportunities to kind of connect with you and look deeper about these things. Because I'm sure this is resonating with people who are listening who can feel like oh, yes, the burnout. And people that are trying to like not be burnout, but know that it's affecting them and affecting their work. I think that the efficacy piece and the cynicism people are like, I don't want to be cynical, but I definitely yeah, but that's me, I can definitely feel that that's how I am at work. And you've talked about some of the other things that you talk about too, like with meditation and different things that people can really do and the importance those things to kind of connect with their body, connect with how they're experiencing this, right?

Dr. Mary Sanders: 25:01

Yeah, I wish everybody had the time to meditate at least five minutes a day. And for those people, and if I could get 20 or 30 minutes out of everybody, I would, but quite honestly, I can't tell you how many times I've heard, well, I don't have the time to sit down for, you know, for more practice everyday 20 or 30 minutes. And those are the people that need it the most. But anyway, anyway, I would take 5, 10, 15 minutes, I think the benefits of just turning off the frontal, the frontal lobe, the analyzer portion of the brain that's always so focused on the next task, if we could soften that, and to get into the default mode, and to silence that chatter a little bit, I think that that's the best self care tool that I can recommend to anyone. And I can, I can honestly say that I have been an on and off meditator for 23, 24 years. And it wasn't until that we left the United States about 10 years ago, and we went to Vietnam, Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, that I had time on my hands. I literally, I was considered to be a trailing spouse at that time. But to make a long story short, I had time for the first time in my life. And I really sunk into meditation, and I experienced some really magical things, which what, is what motivated me to go learn the neuroscience behind meditation. So, I can tell you emotionally, physically, energetically, meditation is probably the most rewarding self tool that you can embrace on a daily basis.

Shawna Rodrigues: 26:48

In five minutes, like, we don't think we have five minutes. Do we have five minutes? Like the next time you show up somewhere, like they see you at the grocery store without the kids, without anybody else, just sit in your car for five minutes. Like you can, you can carve out that five minutes if you make it a point to carve out the five minutes. So that's something that's achievable. 20 minutes, that's like harder to put into our brains if we could find 20 minutes in a day, but five minutes is something that we can, we can make sense of to try and make that happen. I think for some people,

Dr. Mary Sanders: 27:15

certainly. I think it's doable.

Shawna Rodrigues: 27:15

Yeah, I think it's hard for some people to figure out like, where to start, where to even start. And I know that I had the, the first place that I started with the app headspace was actually a good place for me to start because it was really nice. And it, the best thing about headspace was the it told me that it was okay, that I couldn't do it. I had a yoga class when I was in graduate school, which I still cracks me up that my Boston University transcript, which they later even gave me an award for my work. But my transcript from Boston University when I have it sent to jobs and different things, the first thing listed is a yoga class, which like, yeah, I got a degree from them. But they, it was my yoga class first, but was a yoga class, and then that yoga class, they would try to have us do like some level of meditation. And I just, it drove me crazy the entire time, because I couldn't. And I think that it was because I didn't know enough about it was okay that I wasn't having to be successful and not think. And the the app that I had was really good about, just watch the cars on the freeway, like as those thoughts go through your mind and just observe them and let them keep going. Don't chase after them. And I would chase after the thoughts. And when I was in that yoga class, I would just chase all the thoughts and get caught up in the thoughts and miss everything that was happening to help me not, to quiet my mind, I wouldn't quiet it, I would just chase all the thoughts the whole time. And so it wasn't till I had that app that told me no, it's okay. Just watch the cars go by on the freeway, just watch the thoughts, observe the thoughts. And it's okay that you're gonna have the thoughts. Is it just judging myself the whole time that I'm not capable of doing this because I just chased it because I've always thought. So, it was helpful to have an app.

Shawna Rodrigues: 27:46

Shawna, I know that the far majority, probably 90% of your listeners are resonating with what you're saying. Headspace is a phenomenal app. And so is Insight Timer.

Shawna Rodrigues: 29:02

Insight Timer.

Dr. Mary Sanders: 29:03

I like this. Yeah, I like Insight Timer, because there are guided meditations for somebody like you that have various different links so that you can pick and choose which one works for your schedule. And that way you can just listen to somebody guide you through the meditation and somehow that auditory feedback, soften that internal voice. And they also have just the timer so you know that you can set the timer for five minutes and then you know, that you don't have to think about oh, has it been five minutes? Am I late for my next appointment? Have I missed the bell? Have I missed something? And so that you can just sink into the time that you do have available if you just want a silent meditation as well. But the looping thoughts are very, very, very common for somebody just starting meditation, and I just want to give you permission to watch those thoughts. The goal is not necessarily in some people have this belief that the goal of meditation is to have a completely silent mind. And that's not necessarily the goal. And you may be, you do have a passing thought about a project that you're working on for work or you have, you problem solve that idea. And you, it comes to you in your meditation, and then you can just let it go and know and trust that that solution will be available to you when the meditation is over. So, so many different ways, but meditation is my number one take home idea.

Shawna Rodrigues: 30:34

Yes, yeah, I think the entire concept that I got from that app was just the concept that it was okay. But your thoughts didn't stop. And I just had to stop chasing them. And just observe them and let them go. And I think that in general in life, when you have a hard time letting things go, you're practicing, letting the thoughts go is the first step in practicing letting go. So it was a very good first step for me. Once I finally did that, instead of just giving up. I'm like, No, my thoughts had stopped. Important little trick, inportant little trick, but yes, I will actually put that, we'll put that Insight Timer in our notes, that will be in the shownotes. You guys can find a link to that because that would be helpful to have that and Headspace to in case that resonated with somebody who's listening as well. That's very helpful. So you talked a little bit more about the energy medicine and how you really feel that that's been, that's something you work a lot with. And you feel like it's been helpful as well. Can you talk about how that kind of connects with the burnout piece?

Dr. Mary Sanders: 31:32

Sure. When it comes to energy medicine, this is the science that dug portions of this science that are yet to be proven. But there's a tremendous amount of science that is substantial amount that is proving the effectiveness of paying attention to the electromagnetic current that surrounds all of us, and what happened internally within the body. So when we look at stress, and I alluded to this earlier that the chemical imbalance of having stress hormones running through your physical body that doesn't just stay isolated within your adrenal system. Unfortunately, the entire endocrine system, everything from your pineal gland, which is responsible for your sleep-wake cycle, or your pituitary gland, or your thyroid, which is responsible for metabolism or your thymus, which is your immune system, more your pancreas, which is blood sugar, or your ovaries, which is reproductive or your adrenal system, if one of those endocrine gland is out of whack, it causes a cascade and negative feedback cycle that happens to all of those organs. So by utilizing energy medicine, we learn how to balance our system, we learn how to ground into present time, and what I mean by that is that we learn how to control our mind and our body to resonate with the frequency of Mother Earth. Now, if I were to ask your audience, the listeners today, you know, what's the most calming place that you can be? A far majority of your listeners are gonna say out in nature.

Shawna Rodrigues: 33:24

Yes.

Dr. Mary Sanders: 33:25

And so they intuitively know that there's something that they receive when they're out in nature that makes them feel better.

Shawna Rodrigues: 33:33

Yes.

Dr. Mary Sanders: 33:34

And so, goodness, we don't need science to tell us about years and years of people being on, human being on this planet, we know that nature, Mother Earth provides a frequency, emanates a frequency of her own, that we as humans absorb when we're out in nature. So we can control our energy centers to meet and greet the frequency of Mother Earth for healing properties. Now, grounding and earthing, which is called the same thing, if you start Googling it, you're gonna be like, Oh, my goodness, there are earthing mats. Oh my goodness, there are sheets that I can buy that I can put on my mattress that I sleep on, or bring that frequency into my human body. And there's so much science behind that. So grounding was one component of energy medicine, but it also involves the energy centers that we have within our human body. And these are not systems or energy systems that we can dissect. It's not like similar to traditional Chinese medicine. We can't really dissect out meridian, but we know that they exist. And we know where to put the needles in order to stimulate, to activate a meridian and we know where to put the needle to sedate that meridian or to calm it down. The same is true for energy medicine. If we can set the intention to regulate our energy system, it affects our body, our being, our essence as a whole.

Shawna Rodrigues: 35:09

Nice. And so I love this piece with the nature and so us going out into nature being like we are automatically drawn like we understand on this other level that that's how we're going to get ourselves more aligned and more grounded by having that because I know when I mean to make big decisions, I go to the ocean when I was in my 20s. I like drove and drove back in the dark got there, it was dark, sat on the sand to make big decisions that they would drive back because I just felt more grounded and more connected when I was near the water and out in nature. So I feel like we all are just like drawn, we know this, like on a deeper level, this is how we're going to be able to be more connected. That's amazing.

Dr. Mary Sanders: 35:46

Absolutely.

Shawna Rodrigues: 35:47

So you follow that intuition and do those things.

Dr. Mary Sanders: 35:50

Yes, yes. Give yourself the permission from it. Not that you need it. But

Shawna Rodrigues: 35:55

yes, that's wonderful. Is there anything else with the burnout that we haven't covered that we should touch base on?

Dr. Mary Sanders: 36:00

I think from a bird's eye perspective, I think that we've covered a lot today and our time together, there are so many other details that I go to, you know, through in the five month program, but just to have people think, you know, integratively and holistically when it comes to burnout, and really looking to heal down to the cellular level, I think that's the message that people need to understand.

Shawna Rodrigues: 36:26

Yes, that there's so much more to it, and that there's an opportunity to recognize that first step of recognizing that they're experiencing burnout, as I think where we start, and then looking for ways to kind of address it. And I think that each of our episodes, we have something that we take away that we kind of call our, our grit wit to walk away with. And I think that the piece of walkway today is probably that tool you spoke about with regards to actually recognizing the boundaries, you had a name for it, what was the name for that?

Dr. Mary Sanders: 36:54

Yeah, I learned this at the academy from Dr. Francesca McCartney, and she calls it neutral separations. And so it's just an opportunity literally to gift back to those that you've interacted with. And then to receive the energy that rightfully belongs to you. And then to neutrally separate, so that your two identifiable, you know, could be a group that you're, you're neutrally separating from but your own identifiable being that separate than the group.

Shawna Rodrigues: 37:25

Yes, or the other individuals initially separate. And to make that acknowledgement at the end of your work day, at the end of the night if your family member and relationships with other people that you need to have that to have that neutral separation, so that you feel like you're taking your energy back to you and making yourself feel whole again, and that practice of actually separating those pieces and claiming your energy so that you aren't constantly feeling that depletion. I think that's brilliant. So that's why I would hope that each of our, that as you're listening right now, for as you go to bed tonight, or actually work today, that you do that, you take that time to actually mentally and take that picture in and separate those pieces out. So you'd claim back your energy and the blessing, separate those pieces so that you can have your energy back to help look at that burnout piece and have that boundary. I love that.

Dr. Mary Sanders: 38:16

And Shawna, I will share with you just one quick story. Every night when I lay down next to my husband, I turn and I give him a kiss goodnight. And I say, I love you tremendously, but I'm going to neutrally separate. So that's his and I'm like, don't take it personally. But I am separating and I'm gonna go, you know and have a good night's sleep.

Shawna Rodrigues: 38:35

Yes, no, I think, yeah, I think is, I think is as you said that like we were talking about the helping professions and I feel that for the helping professions and for the work and for everyone know what their work. But then I feel that for I feel for my my mom's right now especially with them going back to school with their littles who have been a lot of them have been at home and the little ones starting kindergarten or first grade are having such challenges with their kids at school right now. And feeling that what these moms are taking on right now. Like I was feeling this for my mom right now, as you were, as you were saying this as well as for my friends in the helping professions that have been having these challenges. So yeah, so even even with your littles, Moms, I'm talking to you right now, if you're listening, I'm talking to you, you need to separate from them as well and take your energy back because your energy is important to get, put on your mask. So we got to have that as well as those pieces. So yes, that's very important. And then as we close as well, we always do this piece around self care. And so we just bought light on it. So with our self care spotlight, what are the things that you do for self care?

Shawna Rodrigues: 38:36

So, I am coming from more years of experience, but I am very rigid about my morning routine, I take care of myself first. So what did that mean? That means that I show up on my yoga mat. That means I do additional exercise. I have my personal meditation. I have my nutrients. I have a healthy breakfast before I even interact with other people.

Shawna Rodrigues: 39:58

Yes, yes. That's the important thing, take care of yourself first. And those are the ways you take care of yourself. And definitely that yoga and the nutrients, I think it's hard to remember that we, feeding ourselves is important and giving ourselves nutrients to actually help us attack our day is an important part of that. That is wonderful. So the thing we also have here at The Grit Show is we have a series of coloring books, and we actually have now is out. So for all of our guests, we offer them one of our coloring books, because that's our little way of supporting self care and offer you self care. And so we have, they're called the Color of Grit is a series and we have two of them out. So far, we have the Vintage Mermaid and Magnificent Ocean. And then we've had one that has close, it's called You've Got This, which is inspirational quotes. So which of is these coloring books, can we send you a copy of Dr. Mary?

Dr. Mary Sanders: 40:46

I would like the magnificent mermaid.

Shawna Rodrigues: 40:49

Awesome, we will send you the mermaid when we will get that off. So I need to make sure I get your mailing address and make sure we do that. So we can send you a copy of that. But that's why,

Dr. Mary Sanders: 40:56

I actually saw them on your website. So I'm very much looking forward to this and I do color, I have my little art supplies in my living room. So I do.

Shawna Rodrigues: 41:04

That's perfect, well, then we will definitely get you a copy of that. And you can have that as one more thing to add wherever you want in your day. It doesn't even have to be part of the morning routine. That's perfect. I love it. So, Dr. Mary, I want to make sure people can find you and find out about this wonderful offering that's coming up in January with the Bounce Back from Burnout, as well as your wonderful retreat is coming up in March. And you have other things with webinars and stuff too, that will be coming available. So can you let us know what your website is? So they can find you.

Dr. Mary Sanders: 41:33

Yes, super easy. www.DrMarySanders.com.

Shawna Rodrigues: 41:38

Perfect. And then you're also on Instagram. And that one is a little different. So let us know what your Instagram, Facebook, what your handle is?

Dr. Mary Sanders: 41:44

And it is, @Dr.MaryESanders.

Shawna Rodrigues: 41:47

Gotcha. And I think it's Dr. with a dot, right? Dr.MaryESanders?

Dr. Mary Sanders: 41:51

Yes. Thank you, thank you. Perfect.

Shawna Rodrigues: 41:53

No problem we'll have in the show notes so people can easily find it, just click on it to find it in the show notes as well. So if that's easier, but I listened while I'm driving and cooking and doing other things, and I like to hear things verbally, so we'll say it twice. So perfect. So people that's how you connect with Dr. Mary so that you can hear more about this exciting opportunities. And I think we're also going to try to find, is there, do you know, if there's a way to get that burnout inventory that they can, is it free to take it online, if we find a link for it?

Dr. Mary Sanders: 42:22

I think that there is a version of it. I have a burnout self inventory that came from mindtools.com. And you can do that online, free of charge. And this is a 15 questionnaire and it helps kind of calculate. That's not the formal Maslach. But that's an abbreviated version of that. And the Maslach Burnout Inventory can be found, it's called MindGarden.com and that's a Maslach Burnout tool for general use.

Shawna Rodrigues: 42:56

Awesome. Will you send me those links, and we'll put those in the show notes as well?

Dr. Mary Sanders: 43:00

Yes.

Shawna Rodrigues: 43:00

Awesome. Cuz I think people will find that valuable as well to be able to check that out. I'm sure you listening right now is resonating with some folks, because they're definitely feeling this burnout, because I think a lot of people are experiencing that. So if you guys want to know where they're at and which areas they're looking at, and to get an idea of starting with the wonderful tool you gave us with the neutrally separating that they can also find other tools to be of support for that.

Dr. Mary Sanders: 43:25

Perfect. Wonderful.

Shawna Rodrigues: 43:26

And do you have more tools on your website around supporting them with how to address if they're experienced that burnout, or primarily,

Dr. Mary Sanders: 43:32

yes. I have tons and tons of blogs that address various different pain points, if you will, and how to overcome those pain points. So yes, there are some resources available on the website as well.

Shawna Rodrigues: 43:44

Perfect. That'd be great. Thank you so much for joining us today. Dr. Mary, this has been so valuable. I know it's resonating with folks. And it's great to get this out, because people need more of this information.

Dr. Mary Sanders: 43:54

Thank you again, it's been my honor.

Shawna Rodrigues: 43:56

Thank you. And for everyone else, I'm glad you were able to join us and if you want your copy of the coloring pages, you know to go find it on the website for thegritshow.com and we will see you again next week. Thank you for being here as part of our audience today. If you're interested in checking out our coloring books, after all, it is the holidays. All you need to do is Google the Color of Grit and they should pop up. You can definitely find them on Amazon. You can also get sample pages off of our website, thegridshow.com. Don't forget, you are the only one of you that this world has got and that means something. We'll be here again next Tuesday. I hope you are too.