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Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:00:00

Judgment can be an important skill. It's discernment. It's figuring out what we should or shouldn't be doing. However, especially when life can be overwhelming, especially when we've been through some challenging and traumatic things, it can become a default. It can become a default that can be damaging to our relationships and to our view of ourselves. And today, we're trying to look at things to figure out how we can take a look at judgment and how we can reframe judgment in three simple ways to impact how we see ourselves and others around judgment in a way that can actually improve our relationships and improve the way we see ourselves. I'm taking as our example from a comedy horror film, horror comedy film, which is not a genre I would ever think I would enjoy. And my partner, I have to thank forever watching this film. But Zombieland Double Tap, which is the second in the Zombieland series, is the first one I watched. And there was a character, Madison, which really, really made that movie for me. And she's probably best known for a great line she has when she says, I'm really good at surviving. I'm literally alive. She's great. She also has a line when she first meets Tallahassee, which is the character Woody Harrelson plays, and she says, I feel like you're being really super judgy. I'm getting a real anti-me vibe off of you, which I love that scene. That's the first time you meet her character. And on one hand, we totally identify with Tallahassee. And I can tell you this much, it's obvious about the movie that they're living in an apocalyptic world where their zombies have taken over. And he has a good reason to be very judgmental about anybody and everything that comes across his path because he's in a very protective stance, and that is the pathway that is ingrained in his mind to look at things. So, he is being super judgy. And I just love this character that's very much going to stand up for herself and be like, I feel like you are judging me. And I just love that. I'm getting a real anti-me vibe off of you. I wish I could say that to people at times and do it as well as she did. So, in this episode, we're going to talk about kind of when you're in that Tallahassee place and you're, kind of, in that ingrained mode of being judgy and lesser cases of when, you know, thinking about things a little bit different and about judgment, of circumstances and people and how things happen and maybe different ways we can look at handling them. So, I think we'll get a lot out of it, and I'm glad you're here for this nice short episode. Thank you.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:02:48

Welcome to The Grit Show, where our focus is growth on purpose. I'm your host, Shawna Rodrigues, and I'm honored to be part of this community as we journey together with our grit intact, to learn more about how to thrive and how to get the most out of life. It means a lot that you are here today. As you listen, I encourage you to think of who may appreciate the tidbits of knowledge we are sharing and to take a moment to pass this along to them. Everyone appreciates a friend that thinks of them and these conversations are meant to be shared and to spark even more connections.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:03:27

Today's episode is going to be a shorter episode because it is one of our solo recordings back to our Tuesday Thoughts type of setup and we are just going to explore a little bit around reframing judgment and looking at three different ways, simple ways that we can try to change how we look at things, to see if it helps us with how we're kind of executing judgment so we can get back to using judgment as a tool and not a way of potentially challenging our relationships and challenging our outlook and how we see things. So, the first way we're kind of going to look at things and reframe things is going to be looking at knowledge being about familiarity and exposure. So that when we look at people and we are judging if they know how to do something, if we're looking at a seven-year-old trying to peel a potato or trying to butter toast, that we're recognizing that perhaps their lack of knowledge is really about their lack of exposure. That they haven't been taught how to peel a potato. Or they haven't been taught about how to butter toast. Even though we think that all seven-year-olds should have known this by now or learned this by now, that that's what's going on. Part of that can be what is called the zone of approximal development, which I was actually talking to somebody recently about with their child learning things that sometimes when kids are learning new skills that they can tie their shoes perfectly one day and then the next day really struggle with figuring out how to tie their shoes. That as we're learning new skills, that sometimes we do it perfectly and then we cannot do it right for a few times as we try to master that skill.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:05:08

Same thing with adults, same thing with whenever we're trying to learn something new. So, as we're learning things, we don't always do it right every single time we do it. So, there's a piece of just not enough familiarity and exposure to something that that's why people don't know how to do it or aren't getting it right. And that even as adults, that perhaps that if you have a partner who is, you're outside trying to trim trees or you're trying to do a new outdoor project, or if you guys are together doing bills and they don't know how to balance their checkbook or they don't know, I was working with a younger person that was, they were actually in their 20s and had never written a check before because they'd never had to write a check. So, it was a lack of exposure. So, sometimes when we think and we're judging somebody about what they know or how they move in the world, it really is just a lack of exposure. And if we approach things that way, that when somebody doesn't know something, that instead of judging them on who they are as a person, that maybe they just don't know. They aren't aware of how things are done in other places and with other people.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:06:15

I recently had somebody in a group answer a question that was asked to me about podcast networks, and they answered the question erroneously about what podcast networks were, but it was completely based on what their exposure was. The one time they'd heard about a podcast network and knew what it was and had nothing to do with my podcast network, so I didn't take it personally. They just didn't have exposure and possibly shouldn't have answered the question because they didn't have that knowledge, but they thought they knew and so that's why they stepped in and answered. So, instead of judging them for answering something they shouldn't have, I just said that is probably part of the answer and what they're familiar with. But let me give you the fuller picture based on what I've been able to be exposed to and what I know. And I probably don't have the full answer either because there probably are more answers to this question. So being able to approach things instead of judging that person for answering a question, they shouldn't have to approach it in that way.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:07:10

I have a fabulous story that was eye-opening for me when it came to me kind of understanding how exposure is so important because I think that in the circles I've moved in post-college, postgraduate school, that education really counts for something. And I was out to dinner with my dear friend Laurie, who a lot of you met. And if you haven't met her, you need to go back to I think it's episode 54, the anniversary of The Grit Show, and talking about adult friendships, because she was a guest on that episode and she is such a delightful human. I enjoy her greatly. And I was dating, oh, it's been probably five, seven years ago now, a gentleman who had a PhD in physics and taught physics. He had more education than I did. And we were all at dinner and she was sharing this hilarious conversation about being pulled over when she was driving home. And she's a foster parent, as we discussed in that episode. And I do believe she had foster kids in the car who of course have potentially adverse memories that come with police, and she had her own kids in the car who had never seen her get pulled over and had this circumstance. And part of the reason she was being pulled over was because she was distracted because there was a rooster in the car that was not in a cage that one of the kids was holding. So, one of the kids was holding a rooster, and there were multiple kids in the car. It was chaotic. She was dealing with kids, and that's why she wasn't driving as well as she could have been and was getting pulled over because she was distracted by what was going on in the car. So, she told the story much better than I could. We are howling with laughter at her story of her experience of being pulled over with a rooster in the car. One kid, if not two kids, is crying because there's a police officer and they don't know what's going to happen, and someone's worried she's going to get arrested. And this great story she's telling, she gets to the end of the story, and the gentleman that I was dating that was at dinner with us, who has a Ph.D. in physics says out of the blue, so, was the rooster a boy or a girl chicken? And we all paused and looked at him, and we're trying to understand the comment, trying to see if he was trying to insert himself in the story because he was uncomfortable and being funny because, you know, of course, a rooster is a boy chicken. And we're confused. And then after a bit of silence and awkwardness, I said, well, roosters are male chickens and hens are female chickens. So, because she named it was a rooster, then we know it's a male chicken, and that's how we know it's a male chicken. And he was like, oh, I didn't know that. And we exchanged looks, and we did. It was looks of judgment, which we should never have judged. But he didn't grow up on a farm. Like, we grew up in the country. And you think that everyone's in preschool or elementary school somewhere learned about animals and male and female animals and what they're called and everything else, right? And I'm around people who love to, you know, a murder of crows and talk about how you talk about the plurals of different groups of animals, and that's like a sign of sophistication. But there was no reason to judge him. He just had never been exposed to a conversation around farm animals. But it was such an enlightening moment of, he should also never judge when we don't understand a lot of concepts around physics or that was something he was exposed to, right? So, it was a really important moment for me about recognizing when it comes to different things. And I have a huge amount of patience for kids and their lack of exposure to things and their lack of knowledge, and approach most things with kids as something that they haven't learned and that they need to have the opportunity to learn. And someone very dear to me was someone who changed schools a lot as a child and has a lot of gaps in their learning because of that. And so, because when you go from one school to another, there are different places in their curriculum. And so, there's some things you've learned twice and a lot of things you never learned once. And so, I take that as something to be aware of, that there's a lot of gaps in learning, and it's just about exposure. And so, a lot of times when we approach things and treat people like they should know things, it's just a matter of exposure. I've read a lot of books. Some people I've been teased. Laurie is one of the people that teases me with my $5 words. I love words. I love that they can express things, and I love to be really specific on what I'm trying to say, and I love finding the right words to say it. That's the reason why I published a book. And I like to find those words. And it's important for people to tell me when I'm using words they don't understand because I'm not trying to use words people don't understand. I like to use words that mean exactly what I'm saying. And so, I sometimes use words other people haven't been exposed to, and it's no fun to not be understood. So, I want to make sure that I'm using words that are also words that people understand. And sometimes I use words incorrectly, which definitely has happened to me because I've learned a lot of words in context.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:12:18

So, it's a matter of exposure. And so, when we feel ourselves judging other people on their circumstances about if they know how to do things or when they try to do something and they do it incorrectly, a lot of times we just need to take a step back and offer them that knowledge or that information and to recognize that they just haven't had a chance to learn about that or to get that information or to see that other side of things. And so, offering that stuff from a very curious and humble place is probably the best way to kind of get around the judgment connected to that, potentially. So, that's usually the first place to go. When we find ourselves judging somebody about their lack of ability to do something or their lack of awareness about something, it's a step back that maybe that person isn't trying to attack us or they aren't doing this in a malicious way, that there's just a lack of exposure, not even just a lack of knowledge. It's a lack of exposure and understanding. And that's a good place to start. So, that's our first tool and a way to simply look at things is maybe we should start questioning about people's familiarity or exposure to things before we start judging them for their perspective on things or their abilities for things. So, that's one.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:13:30

The second one is to recognize that we all have different whys behind things, and that as we approach tasks and that we're judging how others do things, that maybe we should look at our whys to see what things we should actually spend any time judging others on. So, an example of this is how your partner loads a dishwasher and that you're noticing that they're loading in a way that isn't the same as how you load it. And so, maybe it really is, like we said, a matter of exposure and familiarity that they don't have the knowledge you have or the awareness you have around loading the dishwasher. But even before we get to the point of having a conversation with them around it, we need to back up to what our why is behind that. Like, why is that important to me how the dishwasher is even loaded, right? Why does it matter to me? Is it a case of, it matters to me because the dishes aren't getting clean? And so, if it matters to me because the dishes aren't getting cleaned, then that's worth having a conversation. If somebody is mowing the lawn differently than me, and it's making it so that not all the lawn is getting cut or there's a problem with things, then maybe that matters. If something's happening and there's a why that it actually hits on, then that's important.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:14:49

So, going back to the example in the group on Facebook when somebody gave the wrong information about what a network is, why that mattered to me is because it was incorrect information and it was misexplaining the work that I do and not giving correct information about what I do, and this person was actually inquiring about what I do. And so, that was incorrect information. So, why that mattered to me was because incorrect information about what I do and it's important to me that people understand what I do and that I correct that. And so, for the dishes, for the dishwasher, if the dishes are getting clean, then it doesn't matter why. If I have a need to explain how to load the dishwasher and the dishes are getting clean, then it's just really about me just wanting things done my way. And that's about me in a whole different conversation. But if it's a matter of the dishes aren't getting clean when they come out, then that's the why. The why is because the dishes aren't getting clean, or if someone's helping me paint a wall in my office and the way that they're painting is leaving weird marks, different ways, then it's a conversation that we should talk about why it should possibly be done different ways. So, if you're having these moments of judging how somebody else is doing things and it actually impacts things. So, if you work in an office and someone else arranges the printer paper differently than you do, and it doesn't really matter, but there's a why like the way they arrange the printer paper it knocks off every time somebody opens the printer to load up something new, then that's potentially something to have a conversation. So, if there's a why, that why it being done a certain way actually matters. There's a why behind what you're judging, then it's worth having a conversation. And then it's important to start with the why when you're wanting to address the thing that you are judging or thing that isn't working right because you start with that why. So, if it is a conversation around the dishwasher, then it's an open conversation. It's not like we have to do this the way that I think it needs to be done. It needs to start with. And again, exposure, like bring it from that exposure familiarity, perspective, right? I know that I read an article and once I read that article and started arranging things a different way, it did help get things cleaner. Do you have thoughts or have you read or seen things that have helped improve the dishwasher working better in your experience? And approaching it that way gives them a chance to share their experience and have them be more open to your experience. And so, being able to with the printer situation at work, if it's knocking the papers down to be able to start with, so, I've noticed that when I open the door to the printer that it knocks off the papers when they're turned this way. And so, sometimes I turn them a different way so that it doesn't knock them off. But I don't know if there's another way, we could do things or a different way of doing things. And so, that openness, that way of approaching things so that people can also offer their perspective or a different way of doing things might be a softer way of approaching things and to be able to leave judgment kind of, off the table and actually focus on what the problem is instead of why you've always done things a certain way and how that might need to be done that way going forward, because you've always done it that way.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:17:52

So, it kind of opens up that conversation. And so that might be a way for you to kind of look at that why. So, when you do feel like you're judging something and judging the certain circumstances, for you to be able to take that step back and like why is this bothering me? What about this needs to change? And to kind of check yourself if there is an actual why this important for that. And so, this is also a place where the third thing for us to kind of reflect on and to see how we can kind of look at how this is impacting things that oftentimes that when we are doing the judging, it kind of goes back to the example that I gave in the intro with Tallahassee, the character in Zombieland Double Tap, where Tallahassee's world was such that, his neuropathways were constantly in a place of judgment. He's living in a world where there's a zombie apocalypse and everything is a threat and everything is danger, and he's like on hypervigilance, I must judge, I must be careful in every circumstance. And that's like the neuropathway that has been entrenched and dug deep. And so, that's where his mind goes to, anytime he meets something, anytime he sees something, he's judging others, he's judging himself. And that's just his default. So, his default mode is judgment. And that's the third thing that we're going to touch on. It's much deeper. So deeper, we're in a conversation about this, but that's the one that I wanted to leave us on and the note that I want us to touch on. And when I noted that I was in a place of having that constant judgment, the thing that I needed to do was to actually look at how I was judging myself and how deep that judgment was going on myself before I could start alleviating how much I was judging others and how much that was my default. And it started with me.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:19:57

And for me, it started with my word of the year five years ago probably now, when I changed my word of the year to be grace, and that I was going to give myself grace. And that was largely about me to stop judging myself constantly and harshly. And for you, instead of grace, it might be that compassion is the word that you need to choose or that you need to look at that more deeply. And in episode 58, Matt and I talked a lot when we're talking about the stress cycle and burnout, we talk a little bit about compassion and different ways that you can kind of buffer yourself and take care of yourself. And I feel like that's a good place for you to start. If this really resonates and you want to take this deeper, let's say go back to that episode 58 and look at that. But that piece with you being able to stop judging yourself and to give yourself grace and to be able to do the things where you write down the things you did accomplish today, and to catch yourself when you're having harsh thoughts about yourself, that is a great place for you to start to be able to stop judging others so harshly. So, that's the note that I want to leave you on.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:21:10

So, the first tool that we gave you guys and the ways of kind of reframing things is for you to start looking at knowledge being about familiarity and exposure. And when others can't do something, when others have a view different than yours, when others are lacking in something, that maybe it's about familiarity and exposure and to have some patience and understanding around that when that is the case. And the next thing we talked about is looking at why something is important to you. And if you do need to have a conversation about something that needs to change to be looking at the why and not just because that's how you do things and that's how it is for you. And the third thing is if you find yourself stuck in that pattern to see if you're like Tallahassee was the example from that movie. But if you're just in a place where your world is such that you feel like your default mode is to judge, to judge others and judge yourself, and to understand that the first step is for you to stop judging yourself so much and give yourself a little grace and compassion. And that's the first step in changing that.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:22:21

Thank you for joining us today. I hope you enjoyed this episode. I know I got a lot out of it. Be sure to jump on over to Instagram and follow us at The.Grit.Show. And if you aren't already following Authentic Connections Podcast Network, @37by27, you should definitely be doing that as well. We're launching the Authentic Connections Podcast Accelerator. It's an amazing opportunity for you to be part of a cohort launching your podcast together. It's a small group, it's very select. If you join this summer accelerator, you will be part of the founding circle of Authentic Connections, which is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Get into the DMs at 37by27 with the word “amplify”. I'll send you our workshop from dreaming to doing, and you can learn more about this amazing opportunity. Don't forget, you are the only one of you that this world has got, and that means something. I'll be here next Tuesday. I hope you are, too.