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Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:00:00

Three years ago, we started this podcast Journey Together, and today, as I continue to focus on my health and healing, my incredible husband has given us the most fabulous gift. He is stepping behind the mic all by himself for our anniversary episode of the Grit Show. In a conversation that feels perfectly timed, he shares how he has applied ancient Taoist wisdom to his own life and how has helped him move from a life of grinding expectations and existential dread to one a peaceful acceptance and joy. From his lessons learned on the golf course, which we know is his place of joy, to finding his true calling and work, he explores how embracing the natural flow of life, rather than forcing outcomes, transformed everything. This episode is a wonderful milestone for our show, but it's also a testament to the love that sustains us and the wisdom that guides us through life's unexpected turns. Whether you're facing your own challenges or simply seeking a more peaceful way to navigate the world, this conversation is one you're going to enjoy as it offers profound insights wrapped in the gentle wisdom of Winnie the Pooh. Yes, I didn't mention that. This comes from the Tao of Pooh, which he read in college and made a profound difference in his life.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:01:13

So thank you for being here and I know you're going to get a lot out of this. And thank you so much, Robie, for stepping up and giving me the great gift of hosting the podcast this week. Welcome to the Grit show where our is growth on purpose. I'm your host, Shawna Rodrigues, and I'm honored to be part of this community as we journey together with our grit intact to learn more about how to thrive and how to get the most out of life. It means a lot that you are here today. As you listen, I encourage you to think of who may appreciate the tidbits of knowledge we are sharing and to take a moment to pass this along to them. Everyone appreciates a friend that thinks of them and these conversations are meant to be shared and to spark even more connections.

Robie Lawrence [: 00:02:07

Hello and welcome to the podcast. My name is Robie and today I'd like to share with you how, using the principles found in Taoism and more specifically the book the Tao of who by author Benjamin Hoff, I've been able to live a more enjoyable, calm, peaceful life. Just a quick background of my life. I grew up in a very poor family living in the poorest neighborhoods of whatever town we moved in, and we moved almost yearly, if not more often than that, for the first 12 years of my life. And growing up like that, you really learn Tenacity and to just kind of lower your head and grind through things. And doing that served me very well. I was a high achieving student in honors courses and an excellent athlete, achieving amazing things through it. And it really carried me well through high school.

Robie Lawrence [: 00:03:08

It wasn't until college where I started to notice that maybe it wasn't carrying me through and something needed to change in my life. You see, with high achievements come high expectations and the higher you rise, the greater those expectations are. And instead of enjoying your performance, whether it's in school or sports, winning or getting A's in a class aren't celebrated, they're expected. And losing or getting bad grades in a class are devastating. And because of this I found myself with very little joy in my life and instead sort of an existential dread and found myself in a doom loop of wondering when the next time I was going to be severely disappointed or not good enough. And sure there was a little bit of feeling like letting other people down if I wasn't good enough. But more importantly I started to let myself down or feel like I was letting myself down and doubt myself and my own self worth. Everything I had learned up to that point told me I just needed to push harder.

Robie Lawrence [: 00:04:20

I needed to chase success or what society or even myself at the time told me was success. I needed to be a part of hustle culture and just try harder. And I was finding that was failing me. It wasn't working to serve my especially my emotional needs. One day I was wandering through the college bookstore and nothing really on my mind and a book caught my eye and it was the Tao of Pooh meaning Winnie the Pooh. By Benjamin Hoff. And I'd always been a fan of Winnie the Pooh. So I thought hey, I'll just pick this up, see what it's about.

Robie Lawrence [: 00:04:57

In this book, Benjamin Hoff uses the stories of that simple honey loving bear and his friends to illustrate the principles of Taoism and how through applying this ancient philosophy to our modern lives we we can achieve a simple, peaceful and content life. Using Pooh and friends, Benjamin Hoff introduced me to the three tenets of Taoism. Number one Tao, Number two Pu and number three Wu Wei. The first of these Tao can be described as the natural order of all things or the flow of the natural world. And how if we can align ourselves with this flow and energy, we can be propelled forward seemingly effortlessly. But when we push against this, when we try to do things our own way, ignoring the natural world and the natural order of things, we can become exhausted, angry, bitter, unhappy. An example I like to think of to illustrate this is a river flowing to the ocean. The river doesn't force its way through trees and rocks straight to the ocean.

Robie Lawrence [: 00:06:09

Instead, it takes the path of least resistance, the natural path, and winds its way through to the ocean. It gets there in a beautiful and unique way. I think about Tao a lot in my daily life as we set things in motion and usually expect a specific outcome and are surprised when it turns out completely different than we thought it would. If we're married to the outcome, we're going to find ourselves disappointed or unhappy or frustrated. But instead, if we let the natural outcome happen and we accept the results, we're going to be much more content and happy. I know that in my own life, especially in the past, I would desire a specific outcome, take the steps that I thought needed to be taking to get that outcome, and then if it didn't happen the way I wanted it to, I would become very frustrated and bitter and spend a lot of time trying to figure out where it went wrong and how I could fix it for the next time. By applying Tao and understanding the natural order of things and, in my opinion, the chaos of the natural world, I've become less concerned with the outcome and given myself the freedom to really focus on my intent and not the outcome. As there are so many factors that I don't even know about that can affect the outcome, I begin to instead focus to make sure my intent is right at the beginning.

Robie Lawrence [: 00:07:50

I find myself applying this in friendships or dealing with a difficult situation, whether at work or spouse or partner, friend, whatever it is, I try to come at it naturally with what I know is the best intent and really a childlike earnestness that people can see. Often, even if the outcome wasn't what I was hoping for, and really even if they don't, I know I would try the best that I could, and I have to leave it at that. Now, an interesting illustration from my own life where I find Tao and accepting the natural flow of things and not really focusing on the end result is, strangely enough, golf. Now, I am not a person who comes by the game of golf naturally. I grew up doing combat sports, and even the idea of golf was something that I never imagined I would want to do, let alone enjoy as much as I do now. If any of you play golf or have a spouse or friend who does play golf, you may know that it is one of the most difficult sports in the world. Inexplicably, I had no idea Until I picked it up while I was working. Early in my career, I had been invited numerous times to play golf and declined.

Robie Lawrence [: 00:09:18

And eventually I just thought, oh, I might as well go see what this is all about. What's very interesting about the sport of golf is you really never know what the outcome of a golf shot is going to be. For example, many times you can hit what feels like the perfect shot, and it goes straight towards the area you were aiming, whether it's the hole or the fairway. And inexplicably, it can hit a rock or a sprinkler head or a little hole in the ground and shoot off in a random direction, seemingly picking up speed. And the next thing you know, you lose the ball or it's in a terrible position and you feel like you were absolutely not rewarded for what was seemingly a perfect shot. Conversely, you can take a terrible swing. The ball can shoot off right off the face of your club, out of bounds, hit a tree, roll back in, be right on the green, next to the flag and in a perfect position. I feel like it is the ultimate sport for a Taoist to be able to enjoy and just sort of accept what happens.

Robie Lawrence [: 00:10:42

And I actually wonder, for people who don't have that perspective, how do they stand it? Because if I was married to the outcome of every golf shot or my score, at the end of the day, I imagine I would make my life miserable because I would be grumpy, I would not enjoy it. I probably, hopefully wouldn't have continued to play it. But instead, I find going out to the golf course and playing is one of the few places in the world where all the other cares that I have and worries that I could carry with me melt away. And I'm living in the moment every shot that I take and not overly concerned with the outcome because I have no control over that. And it reminds me of that all the time. And I find that a constant reminder that no matter how hard I try, I do not have control over the natural world or anybody else. And I just need to do the best that I can and accept whatever outcome I get. The second tenant that Benjamin Hoff introduces us to in the Tao of Pooh is much like the name Winnie the Pooh, but a little shorter, less ooh, more Pooh, if that makes any sense at all.

Robie Lawrence [: 00:12:04

Anyway, Pooh can be described as the uncarved block, limitless potential. For example, you have a block of wood, it can become any number of things, a limitless number of things. However, once you carve it into Something it can no longer have that limitless potential. And poo is reminding us to remain an uncarved block, malleable to any situation and not rigidly adhering to any one thing. Benjamin Hoff illustrates this with a story of Pooh and Rabbit getting lost in the forest. And Rabbit, who is educated and smart, decides he's going to help them find their way back. And so he starts using his intelligence and chooses north. And they go north and they stay lost and they find themselves back at the same spot.

Robie Lawrence [: 00:13:06

So then he goes east and they go east and they find themselves back in the same spot. And eventually he doesn't know what to do because his intelligence has not led them to the right way. And Pooh, in his childlike innocence, discovers he can smell the honey from his house and using his nose, leads he and Rabbit back to his house. What Benjamin Hoff is illustrating here is that instead of saying, I'm lost, I must follow steps A through F. And then if I can't find my way, then what do I do? He says, have calm, open yourself up and the path will make itself known to you. An example from my own life of this. I had mentioned that I was an athlete and one of the sports that I did was wrestling. And when I was in college, I switched colleges, and when I got to the new college, I had a coach who demanded that we all wrestle a very specific way, steps A through F, like I mentioned with Rabbit.

Robie Lawrence [: 00:14:22

And I tried to follow this path. Now, I had been very successful up to this point, and trying to fit my style of wrestling into the style that he was teaching us did not go very well. I had more losses probably in, let's say, a month long period than I'd had in three years previous to that. And I was pulling my hair out and I started to think of the tenet of poo and realized that it wasn't going to work for me to try to wrestle in this way. And instead I, without telling my coach, which may or may not have been the right choice, I ignored pretty much everything he'd been telling me. And I will say I went into matches without a game plan. And instead I just put myself into position and allowed my brain to turn off and my body to react to the situations as I was wrestling in the matches. And it was almost immediate.

Robie Lawrence [: 00:15:38

I started winning again and performing in the way that I knew I could, but could not when trying to do it a very specific way dictated by somebody else. Instead, I was allowing my body to feel and flow and react and not just follow a set pattern which clearly was not working for me. An interesting and maybe more important side note to that is, you know, winning is great and all, but I found myself enjoying the sport again and looking forward to having matches. I would enter them with a childlike enthusiasm of let's see what's going to happen this time, as opposed to rigidly thinking I needed to do these specific things and if they didn't work then I was going to be miserable with the outcome. The third tenant of Taoism given to us by Benjamin Hoff in the Tao of who is Wu Wei? Or at least I think that's how it's said. It's one of those things. I've never heard it spoken, I've just read it and that's how I read it in my mind. Regardless, Wu Wei is non action or effortless action.

Robie Lawrence [: 00:17:02

This doesn't mean to do nothing or doing nothing, but instead it means acting in accordance with the natural order or flow of life. An example of this could be if you were in a boat in the river and you fell out and you were worried about drowning. If you did not follow the natural flow or order of things, you might swim against the current upstream and what that would do was tire you out and wear you down and you would never make it. And instead, if you follow the natural flow and swim with the current, but use that current to angle yourself you and it'll push you with effortless action, you will find yourself on the shore in no time. An example of this from my life when I started my career, gosh, almost 30 years ago now, I loved it. I loved what I did. I showed up with enthusiasm, I worked with my team and literally enjoyed everything about it. Inexplicably, I didn't end up in a career that I went to school for.

Robie Lawrence [: 00:18:16

I very, very much fell into it and had no idea that I would like it. It just was what was available at the time. And I really did. I enjoyed it. I call it a high level problem solving with very real consequences and I seemed to be very good at it. Unfortunately I as I continued down the path, I started following what society tells you should do. You need a promotion, you become a team lead and then you take a management position. And many years down the road I found myself not enjoying my job and not looking forward to going to work and actually sitting at home thinking why? Why do I have this job? And I decided I was done.

Robie Lawrence [: 00:19:05

I quit that job, left the field completely, took a job doing something else and strangely enough Discovered I didn't like that new job either. And once I sat back and reflected, I realized that those things that made me enjoy my job that I was good at, were things that as I took on extra responsibility and followed the accepted path to being a team lead and management, that I was now spending 85% of my time doing things that I did not enjoy, that I wasn't necessarily good at. And I was only spending 15% of my time doing that, which did bring me joy. And so I ended up going back to that field again, very specifically telling the job that I took that I had no interest in trying to move up the ladder, that I just wanted to do the job. And I found my joy in it again. And I continue to do it now and again. I'm really pushing on 30 years in the field, and I still enjoy that part of the job as much now as I did when I started. And I'm very happy that I am no longer trying to move up in the job.

Robie Lawrence [: 00:20:39

And instead I have found my happiness and my contentment. Where I'm at. This is really the place that I belong. And I love that and I love looking forward to going to work along those lines. I know that that wouldn't be for other people, and that's perfectly okay. And I want them to find that which drives them to happiness and allows them to enjoy their lives. We're all different and it's okay. We don't need to be like each other.

Robie Lawrence [: 00:21:12

We're never going to be. And I accept that and find that very fulfilling to not only be in the place that I know that I should be, but to be happy for others to find that for themselves. I know that finding Taoism and the Tao of Pooh has allowed me and given me an understanding of the natural world, the natural order of things, including myself, and given me the ability to align my life with the way things are and the way I am and not necessarily the way somebody else or even me at times thought I should be. And instead given me the ability and acceptance to know who I really am and what I really need and to be okay with that, to embrace it, and in doing so, really fulfill my life and bring me joy and happiness. To me, Taoism isn't a philosophy or a religion as much as it's a frame of reference for my life and a guide to allow me to experience life with a bemused enjoyment of whatever happens. I would welcome the listeners to look again for the book the Tao of Pooh or its follow up, the Day of Piglet, both written by Benjamin Hoff. If you're interested in discovering Taoism and seeing if there's a way that it could enrich your life and bring you more joy, thank you.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:23:08

I value the time we shared together today. Thank you for making time to be here and to continue taking steps towards growth and bringing more ease into your life. I'd love for us to stay connected on Instagram, Shawna Podcasts or The Grit Show. There's even a link in bio @the.grit.show where you can send me an email to let me know what you thought. Today's episode. Hearing from you helps to make the effort that goes into producing these episodes worthwhile. After all, you're why I'm here. And since it's been a while since you've heard this, you are the only one of you that this world has got and that really does mean something.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:23:54

I hope you realize that I'll be back again soon, and I hope you're following along or subscribed so that you'll know and be here too.