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Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:00:00

Have you ever been surprised when your super reliable friend, the one that always volunteers for things, always gets everything done on time and is incredibly reliable, suddenly flakes on everything, quits their job, gets rid of all their commitments and kind of disappears or maybe even goes so far as booking a one way trip to Bali? Or maybe you're shocked because your rebellious cousin who refuses to follow any rule ever, all of a sudden is getting up at 5am to follow through on these workout routines to train for their passion project. Today we're diving into the fascinating world of Obligers and Rebels to follow up on what we started two episodes ago in our conversation on the four tendencies and really looking at what motivates us and how we handle expectations and how these different types can help us better understand those exact things. Trust me, understanding these tendencies just may help explain some of the biggest mysteries of your life. Welcome to the Grit show where our focus is growth on purpose. I'm your host Shawna Rodrigues and I'm honored to be part of this community as we journey together with our grit intact to learn more about how to thrive and how to get the most out of life. It means a lot that you are here today. As you listen, I encourage you to think of who may appreciate the tidbits of knowledge we are sharing and to take a moment to pass this along to them. Everyone appreciates a friend that thinks of them and these conversations are meant to be shared and to spark even more connections.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:01:50

We actually started it at episode 109 with our conversation around upholders and questioners and really introducing you to the concept of the four tendencies that Gretchen Rubin expounds on in her book. It's a fabulous book. I enjoyed every bit of it. She is an upholder. I am a questioner. So of course I questioned some things and want to build some things out, but I learned a ton overall and I'm excited to share more of it with you. So to keep this conversation going, if you're tackling the largest group, Obligers, they make up 41% of the population and we're adding to that the smallest and perhaps most understood group, the Rebels. We'll also unpack the fascinating phenomenon of Obliger Rebellion, which is why I paired these two together.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:02:38

Because sometimes our Obligers can look like rebels because of oblige a rebellion. And I also think it's an important thing for us to pay attention to and look out for because especially after the pandemic, I feel like it's something we're seeing more and More of. And it helps to explain things that don't otherwise make sense. Not that you have friends that are packing up, moving off to Bali, although it'd be kind of fun to pack up and move off to Bali, right? But for people that have just had enough and can't take any more, it might help to explain what's exactly happening instead of them being a complete mystery and a bit of confusion. Let's start with our obligers. The first thing for us to understand about obligers is that they tend to be great at meeting external expectations, but have a hard time meeting internal expectations. So there are reliable team members, the ones that everyone counts on, and the rocks of our families and our workplaces. But there's so much more to understand about how they operate and so much more to understand about how we can support them to make sure they don't get pushed over into the obligatory rebellion that we've mentioned and talked about.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:03:48

They're also the people that we sometimes take for granted and sometimes we see as people pleasers on some level. But they're natural team players. We value that and appreciate them. Right? They're very responsible, very dependable. They're great at meeting deadlines and showing up for people. They're natural caregivers. They're great for support systems. They're very valued employees.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:04:12

And they are incredibly valuable team members and community members. So they're great. We love our obligers. We appreciate what they contribute and who they are, but we also need to take care of them and be a support to them and recognize what some of those challenges are. If you remember from the first episode, I gave you a really good example of somebody who inspired the author, Gretchen Rubin, to write the book or do the research that led to the book. When she had one of her friends talk about how she had been part of a team in high school and had no problem showing up and doing the workouts and doing the practices. But when she was doing it for herself, she didn't. So that's the challenge for obligers.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:04:56

They're really good at doing things for others, but they have a harder time doing it for themselves. So when it comes to expectations, if they want things to get done, they do for others first and often do for themselves last, which can leave them in a very depleted state. And that can also be what leads to the Obliger rebellion. So it's a little heartbreaking for me because I've had lots of people I've loved and cared about that I've seen that happen with them, that they are so busy taking care of others that they can't do for themselves a little bit. And I haven't understood how inherent that is to who they are. And as much as I just want to say just do it a different way, it's much more who they are and those expectations and those pieces aren't as simple as I've made it. Right. Like I gave the example before about my fabulous husband who's an upholder, being like, well, I just want to do something, I just do it.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:05:48

Why don't you just do it? And me as a questioner being like, I would love to just do it. It's not that simple. And for someone who's an obliger, they would love to just do it, but it's not that simple. And so for us to understand those concepts, right? So for an obliger, they might train for months for someone else's marathon, but struggle to walk around the block for their own health. Right. And they'll stay late at work to help a colleague, but they won't take time for their own professional development. And so it's a little heartbreaking. And at the same time, we value them so much because they are so great about being parts of teams and being parts of communities and they're such an important part of making things happen and things getting done, but they aren't taking care of themselves.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:06:32

And so the fascinating thing about Abijah rebellion is that it's like a pressure cooker for them, that they're so busy doing all the things for everyone else that it builds up the steam and that they continue to prioritize external expectations and neglect their own needs and it just reaches a boiling point and it's almost beyond burnout. Does that make sense? Like it gets to a point where it's actually toxic and they just have to do something extreme about it. And we tend to then put them in this rebel category that we'll be talking about, obviously, because they are in all out rebellion. And so the warning signs about someone getting close to that is something it's important for us to pay attention, to recognize, like where they're getting and where they're at and to make it more important to be of support to help them address what's happening because it's getting to be too much for them. So if you have somebody that they've self identified as Obliger or you can kind of see that they might be an obliger, that they're growing resentment about commitments that they're Starting to really feel taken advantage of and like being taken for granted, that they're exhausted, they're worn out. And I think that's why I feel like the pandemic really did, like, add to the pressure cooker of this, right? When folks were at home and having to take care of so many things and feel like there's only personal, responsible, that it was a lot and that people start to have the small acts of resistance. They start to feel like they complain about being the responsible one and the only one that's taking care of things. And they really are like, dancing with that piece of that verge of that rebellion that they can't be the obliger anymore, they can't keep doing this.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:08:11

And it's one of these things where someone can be done when that happens, right? And so if you read about in literature, I feel like we have all these examples of somebody who's been the obliger and then entered into Obliger her belly. And I can almost see the pictures of them just like throwing over the pot or something or like, like, I'm done, I can't do this anymore. Just like walking out and that people leave in relationships where the other person is just shocked that they had no idea this is coming, but the person just like gives and gives and gives so they can't anymore and they're done and they up and leave. And it feels like those are the examples of it, right? And so it's really important to start recognizing these patterns before they reach this breaking point. And for obligers, the path to sustainable success isn't about trying harder to meet their internal expectations. It's about creating external accountability for their personal goals, which is just a whole different way of looking at it, right? Because I think that when I've had friends that have had those challenges, that I just like, push them to try harder to prioritize themselves and do this. But no, the actual way to success is to actually utilize the mechanism that's already there, to actually give themselves an external accountability, to make it so their personal goals can happen for them.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:09:36

And so an example of this is if, like, you want your kitchen organized because you want to organize for you, because you feel better in an organized space, but it goes to the bottom of the list because there's no external expectation around that. And so it just keeps going to the bottom of the list. You're too busy going to commitments for committees you're part of, or taking care of the needs of children that need your support, or too busy meeting everyone else's expectations. And so the kitchen is your space, and so your space doesn't ever get organized. And so the way to do that then would be to have it so that someone else that you're externally accountable to is coming over to your place to do this organizing with you. And because they're coming over like you're accountable to them because they're coming to your house to do this organizing. And so then you have to do that. So I wouldn't like pay some expensive organizer for them to do it.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:10:29

I would pay a neighbor kid that's going to come over. So you're really going to have to do the work because you know what, how you want to organize. But they're coming over so you're obligated to them because you know they need the money and they need this project. So you're going to do this project and be dedicated to doing the project because they're coming over. So therefore you know they need the money, so you're going to do it. So really you're just setting aside your time to actually organize your kitchen because somebody else is coming over to help you do it. And so that would be like the external accountability for you to meet this internal expectation of what you want to get done. And if you want to go and exercise, we might have even had that example in the past episode that you need to have somebody that you're going to get up and go on that walk with because you'll be accountable to them to go on that walk, but you're going to get the walk that you've been wanting to meet and do.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:11:17

And so you're probably more successful with exercise programs when you have somebody that you're accountable to and showing up for. And I was so frustrated with my membership somewhere when they had like you had to pay if you didn't show up. But those type of systems are meant for people that are obligers, so they will show up because they have that external accountability. So for you to find things that have external accountability built in so you can be successful on your personal goals, that's kind of the way to have that happen. And so you want to be more effective with obligers to have that outside piece, right? Like if you want to read more like you join a book club, so you have to get the reading done because you're going to be part of a book club. And if there's something else you want to do to have somebody you regularly check in with about it, you have to report back about if you've done it or not. And so if you have self care, that is actually a responsibility to others that you're completing it. And so you really had to get your mind around the fact that when I take care of myself, when I go to bed earlier, I'm well rested so I can take care of other people.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:12:24

And I'm more patient when I go to bed early or whatever else. So you need to have like your connection to others to be why you can do those things to take care of yourself and that will help you be able to do it. Or if you're going to do a task that you have, one of your kids does better at school if they have their own notebooks prepared for them. But it does good for you if you do these drawings or do these pieces. Maybe you do a calendar for one of your kids each week, but that's like your art time to do that calendar for your kid. So it's something you're doing for somebody else. But it's your relaxing art time that's actually good for your self care. So whatever you said your self care is, it has to feed into somebody else so that you get it done.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:13:08

So you have to find a way to help them do that. And if you have someone in your life, a family member, an employee, a child, some you're close to, that you can actually help them set boundaries before that rebellion kicks in. And you need to recognize that fact and help take things off their plate before they get too far because they will keep saying yes and they will keep doing too much. And so for you to help set those boundaries in ways that feeds into that. So to be able to say, like you would be an amazing coach for the softball team, however, you're doing such a great job being the head of the committee for the parties that happen regularly for this other group that we really need for you to be focused on that so that it doesn't take away from that. So that should probably be the focus, is doing that so you can give your most to that. So having the boundaries but couching them in the way so that they're still supporting others by doing those things and not taking away from those obligations, those things they're giving because of that, does that make sense? And so from our, from our last conversation I mentioned that obligatory rebellion might explain why we seem to kind of more rebellious behavior than the statistics would suggest. Right? So we have fewer rebels.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:14:23

But because of Obliger rebellion, we might like even up those numbers because obligers are the largest group but we also have that tendency to have obliger rebellion as part of that. Right. So we just need to remember that the chronic self sa self sacrifice without recognition plays into that. And so to make sure that we're giving that recognition and support and to be able to help find ways to assure that there's not just self sacrifice, that we're also finding ways to meet their own needs and using the mechanism that works for them so they can have that. And because that accumulator resentment that builds up, that kind of adds to that. Right. And so having external accountability for their personal needs is the formula that works. And continually feeling like, well, why can't you just do this? You want this, just do this.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:15:09

You ran in high school for track, why can't you run now? Instead of like, well then joining a team that you're accountable for that you have to meet every Saturday morning to go running is your way to do running just like you did in high school because you're accountable to a larger group. So finding ways to help them do that and so making sure we're aware of some of those pieces that can play into it and make things more challenging for them. So we really want to make sure that we're supporting ourselves if we're obligers because again, it's the largest percentage of the population. So there's a chance that this might be you, that you're supporting yourself and being aware of this and you're learning this technique of how you can set up external accountability for you to be able to meet your personal needs, understand your personal needs are as important because if not, you're going to end up on the other side of that rebellion. Right? And to have that and then to be able to have check ins with people if needed to help support that and to be able to build that up for you because you don't want to get that level. Like, we value people that are obligers, that are so giving, that do so much. We want to make sure we have those tools and to not have any judgment about needing that external accountability. Just understanding that's just the way it is.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:16:24

I had a really good conversation with one of my friends about. So it's called the Four Tendencies Framework and I'm rebranding it for a workshop I'm giving in California this week and calling it the Four Core Expectation Framework. Because it's just core. It's the core to how we are and who we are. And by making it sound like it's a tendency, it makes it sound like oh, is this something like we tend to do? Right? And I'm a questioner, so I'm very big on words and how things are framed. And it's the core of how somebody is and how I explained it, I was at dinner with a friend of mine who's very tall. And when I was explaining to him, I was like, it's like you're tall or your hair is brown or something that's just like. It's just a core part of who you are and how you are.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:17:08

So if you're an obliger, that's just a core part of how you are. It's like being tall. And when you're tall, if you're not aware that you're tall, you're going to bump your head when you walk through doorways. And so knowing that you're tall means that you need to know how to stoop down to get through a doorway. Ideally, we'd have big enough doorways for everyone to walk through, but if we don't, you have to know how to stoop down. You have to know that when you're in the shower, you got to lean a certain way so you can, like, get all of your stuff wet. You have to just move through the world a little bit differently because you're tall. And so this is like, you're born this way, you are this way.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:17:41

It's who you are. There's nothing wrong with it. There's no judgment around it. It's just how 41% of the population is. And to be able to not end up with bandages on our head all the time because we're banging our head against the doorframes, we need to know how to move around that and within that. And that's the big reason why need to know things about this key piece about having external accountability for personal goals and not letting us just ignore personal goals and work around them and not having expectations for ourselves and only having expectations for others because we will get to the point where we can't handle any expectations because it's just been too hard and too draining and you can't get from an empty cup, right? So the way to do that isn't for me to just say, like, as your friend who's a questioner, who doesn't understand, which has been the case for years, right? Instead of being that friend who doesn't understand, it's like, well, why don't you just start doing stuff for you? Just take care of yourself. Like, why don't you prioritize yourself more Instead of just saying that, just say like, okay, what can we do? Like what do you want to do? Like what do you want to do that's for you that what's your personal goal and how can we set up this external piece to make that happen? Instead of just saying like, well, just keep trying, just keep trying, just keep trying. Because it's not enough, it's not going to happen.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:19:00

Because that's not how the mechanism works. The mechanism works. There needs to be an external piece of accountability. So we need to understand that. And once we understand that, we can use that to our benefit and work that way. And the same way works for medical stuff for in the work environment. So understanding these core expectations, like how we handle expectations and it's expectations specific to expectations, like once we understand that we can work within that and be successful. So that's why it's so important for us to understand that.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:19:30

So if you know somebody who is an obliger, which chances are you know somebody, this is the way to be supportive is to find the way to have that external accountability. Because there is that challenge with supporting internal goals and things for themselves. So they need that extra piece. So we're going to chat more about the rebel tendency now, which is a smaller part of the population, but I think there's a little bit more uncertainty about how to handle it because we aren't as familiar with it because it is a smaller part of the population. Right. So we're going to get into how to handle that. So with rebels they tend to resist both inner and outer expectations. So they're fascinating because it's a completely different framework than our other tendencies.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:20:18

So it might be one that can be a little challenging for others to understand because each of those tendencies can either work well without our expectations or with inner or with both with the right. Once the questions are kind of dealt with. And so that's kind of challenging. Rebels are amazing individuals. They are driven by identity and authenticity. So while others might focus on exploitations, they focus on choice and alignment with their self image. So those are things you have to have in mind when working with them or trying to motivate them towards expectations. And this is why they might refuse to do something when told but willing do the exact same thing when it's their choice, which makes it complicated.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:20:59

Right. So it can feel a little frustrating at times because it feels like there's no rhyme or reason for why they're doing things. Because it can be yes or no, because they're saying no, because they're Being told to because there's expectations. And then when there's not expectations, they are willing to do that because it aligns with their identity and it's their choice. Right. It's a little confusing. So they operate it on a this is who I am framework. So it must.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:21:24

Things must align with their sense of self. And this is often why things backfire and a lot of techniques backfire with them. So if you tell them they have to do something, their resistance just like, rises more and more the more you try to tell them that. But framing things as a choice often works well, and that might be one of your most successful techniques with doing it might be. Right. So let's expand on this. While we talked about the who, what, why, and the framework for other tendencies. Rebels operate more as who I am.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:21:59

So they have that who component that we talked about when I was talking about how I see things, but it's who I am. So the actions must align with their self image and the choices must reflect their personal values and they resist the control of external entities. So they want to preserve their own authenticity, which is beautiful in a lot of ways. Right. But the freedom of choice also reinforces their identity. So giving them freedom of choice can be a very valuable tool working with them. So here's some. If you know, you know, somebody who's a rebel that you've been challenged to work with, you might be writing this down, right? So things that, that work for them is language.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:22:40

Like, you know, you might find this interesting, or I wonder if this aligns with your values. Or you could choose this, or what do you think about this? And language that backfires is, oh, you, you have to do that, or you should this, or you must or no, this is required, or this is how everyone has to do it, or whatever else. I recently realized that there was a friend of mine who was dating someone and I was like, I really can't believe you're dating them because they always wanted kids. And I didn't think you wanted kids. And that turned into, well, what do you mean? And that was not the way to handle it. And so, so I definitely should have used different language with approaching that. And again, like, I don't automatically put people into boxes and didn't have this framework. And so never would have thought that I might like, actually be pushing them further into their position because, you know, the people that you push further into their position when you say things, you're like, what am I doing? Like, why am I locking you into this? I'm not trying to lock you into this.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:23:45

I was just surprised that you were dating somebody that wants kids, obviously, when you don't want kids. And then that led them to having kids. And, you know, this other situation that just surprised me because, again, I was telling them who they were and their identity is that other people don't tell them who they are. Right. And that. That says something about them because, yeah, they're amazing with kids, but I just didn't think they wanted kids. So telling people those things that this is how I see you, or this is what this means about you, not wise. It was not wise of me to handle things that way.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:24:20

Not smart at all. So it's good to give them clear information without any pressure and connect choices to consequences. If that's just as information, not as threats that, like, this equals this. So if it would have been a clear information for that situation, would have been like, you're so happy with this person. And I just wonder about you guys getting married and having kids. And although you're amazing with kids, I wonder about how happy you would be in that situation. So if that would have you feeling really tied down and not able to do the things that you've talked about wanting to do with your career and why you've not wanted to have kids, because that would really challenge things. And so that, like, consequences like them being challenged with their career if they had kids versus me saying, like, why are you dating this person? I didn't think you want kids.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:25:09

Not the way to present it to them, which I didn't know. And that gives them room for autonomous decision making to actually mull that over and figure out, like, where they would want to be. So clear information without pressure and then the connecting things to that. And you could also like the identity piece, right? Yeah, because saying they're like, as someone who values independence or someone who values their career or was going, or like, so the identity piece is important to them always. And so if you can find a way to connect to part of their identity, they are. That's important to them. That can make it easier for them to have that conversation and see that piece. That can be a valuable resource when doing that.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:25:49

So just try to think of that information, choice, consequences. And sometimes with information, integrating the identity piece to be helpful for that. So something to think about when working with people that are rebels. And I'm curious, especially with kids, to be able to think about that and how that works. But I literally have that, like, written down in a sticky note because the fact that I've realized That with my business, that with supporting folks that have podcasts, that a lot of individuals who have something important to say and are passionate about the work that they do, that there's some level of like you almost had to be a rebel to go against the status quo and be ready to launch businesses and do this work. And yet as a rebel, you also need someone to hold you, you know, to help you get things done. Because you're not good with internal or external expectations. Even though you want this, the internal expectations are making it hard to do.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:26:43

So it shouldn't be all surprising that folks aren't great with deadlines and aren't great with other pieces. And me just repeating the deadlines is not helpful if they were obliger or an upholder. Yes, me repeating deadlines is helpful. Somebody is a rebel. Me repeating deadlines is just activating them. And so that's what I need to have written out. The process of giving options and choices and potentially consequences with things like so there's a different way to handle that. And so it's been helpful for me to write that out because I love the individuals I work with.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:27:15

They have so much value and it's so important. And my approach is actually making things worse instead of better because I'm a questioner and I ask more questions and give more reasons and that's just overwhelming for somebody and they're a rebel. And so understanding how my core expectation framework is actually triggering and causes challenges for individuals that have different frameworks than I do. And so it's valuable to be able to see that and see how I can handle things just a little bit differently. So that's why it's helpful to look at it a little bit differently. So we're coming to this great point of kind of bringing this all together and going back to our obligers of just remembering that like creating accountability systems are very valuable. Building an external check ins can be helpful and then always like checking for those signs of overwhelm because we want to make sure we aren't inching closer to the Obliger rebellion and knowing that that's something that can happen. So to make sure that they are observing self care even if they can look at it in context of other people, even if it needs to have external accountability to make it happen, that they do need to take care of themselves because if they don't, there can be large consequences for that.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:28:31

So then going to our rebels to have like the formula that we talked about, right, that we have provide information without pressure, connect to offer choices and connect that to identity if possible. As someone who values X, Y, Z, present consequences, information and then create space for them to make their own decisions, lead them in that direction, see if that's valuable and then that connecting actions identity is important and to always respect their autonomy and provide genuine choice. Like to not just like say this, but to actually connect to that genuine choice to really make a difference for them. So I know that when we talked about it before that like we talked about that it's not just expectations, but it's also what motivates us. So it's how we handle expectations. And knowing how we handle expectations can help motivate us to fulfill those expectations. Right? So upholders really need clarity, questioners need the reasons, obligers need external accountability and rebels need choice and alignment with their identity. So if we can just keep those things in like those are the top level things to remember.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:29:39

Rebels need choice and identity alignment, obligers need external accountability, questioners need reasons, upholders need clarity. So whichever one you are, whoever you're working with to understand that if there's like a glitch in our motivation, a glitch in our expectations, be able to meet them, the chances are we're missing that. If it's a questioner, we don't have the reasons. If it's an obliger, we don't have external accountability. If it's an upholder, we're lacking clarity. And questioners can muck up the waters and make it so it's not clear. And if it's a rebel, it's because we're not giving choice and we're not aligning with identity. And so none of these are better or worse.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:30:19

They're just the different ways that we process expectations. There are individual frameworks for how expectations need to go through and be processed for us to be motivated to fulfill them. And so it's helpful for us to make sure that those things are alignment, to make those things happen. And we don't want to box people in, right? And we've talked about. So we'll visit that quickly. So with questioners, when we talked about them, we talked about how questioners are next to rebels and upholders. So someone can be a questioner and they can lean towards rebel or lean towards a polder. And if somebody's upholder, they can lean towards questioner, lean towards obliger, someone's an obliger, they can lean towards a polder.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:30:59

So that person probably also needs additional clarity. Or if they're obliger, they can lean towards rebel. So they might also need some choice and identity at times too because they're an obliger but they also lean towards rebel. If somebody's a rebel they can lean towards obliger. So that means that they could benefit sometimes from external accountability, which is hard, right, because they need choice and identity stuff. But they also could possibly benefit from external accountability. So you kind of got to read the room on that one a little bit. Right.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:31:27

And rebels can also lean towards questioners, so they might also need reasons sometimes. So to be able to know like which way we're leaning because again this is four types and there's how many humans on this planet. So there's more to it than that. So there's some leanings in different areas. So you might pay attention to yourself and like okay, so yeah, I think I am a rebel. But sometimes a lot of things like especially at work, like I do well with stuff, if I have good reasons, then maybe like I do lean more towards questioning and I can do okay with reasons and doesn't just have to just be choice and identity stuff I can do. I'm a rebel, but I deal with questioning. But when I'm at home, yeah, I really, the rebel thing, it seems to happen and I don't do well with expectations and I.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:32:08

And with rebels that's an interesting thing too, right? It was internal and external expectations. So sometimes they, they work against themselves. So if you're a rebel and you're listening to this like you yourself need choice and identity alignment for things you want to do for yourself. So we jokingly gave the example of the cousin, right, that was getting up at 4am to do something, but it was their choice to get up at 4am and it really aligned their identity. So for you as a rebel to be very secure on what your identity is and what things align with that and that will make it easier for you to see the expectations are aligned with that and you can get in sync with those. And so if you're a rebel that you're, you identify really well with being a really caring loving parent. Like you will make the choices to be in alignment with being a really loving caring parent, especially when you recognize that's why you're doing those things because that part of your identity is very important to you or you identify with being like a part of a certain group and so find the groups and the people that you can like align with and like or the parts of your identity that you really want that are important to you and Then make the choices and identify with things that align with that, and those are the things you're going to stick to. And you'll be able to internally motivate and externally motivate to be part of and do those things.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:33:25

So if you're a rebel, you also. Internally motivating is also challenging for you. So these are things you need for yourself as well. You need to give yourself choice. And not just like always say, no, I have to get up at the exact same time every day. Instead of saying, like, no, I can get up at 5 or 6 and do these exercises. Right. So that you find the choice as long as it's aligned with the identity of what you're actually doing.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:33:48

So hopefully that's helpful. So we're not trying to box anybody in, right. It's just different patterns and it's helpful for us to see them in our interactions. Because sometimes when somebody is a rebel or somebody's an upholder. Love of my life, my husband, right? I'm confused by some actions, but now that I'm like, oh, that's because that's why that frustrates him and for us, ourselves. Like me as a questioner, me knowing that I'm a questioner, to be like, oh, that's why these take. Things take more time. Because this is just how I am.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:34:17

It's like being. I'm not tall, I'm short. It's like being short. It's just part of who I am. Having small feet, like, I have small feet and I'm a questioner as part of being a questioner means that, like, it's going to take me more time to make decisions sometimes, so I can limit them or do the other things that help, like draw it in. But that's just part of my process because that's part of who I am, and that's okay. We're all approach things differently and it's good for us to know that piece and to work with that. And if I'm an obliger, that rebellion is something that I need to be aware of, that I need to take care of myself, because I don't want to get to that point.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:34:49

And so it is important for me to take care of that. So we all have unique strengths around these. There's some beautiful things we need about all of the different pieces, about what they bring, and we need to honor those and then understand that that's what we need to take into account when we're connecting with others and working with others and support who we are in those different ways and try to make the doorway bigger instead of just making everybody duck all the time. If there's ways that we can do that to be supportive of each other as we work through this a little bit. So yeah, so you remember my, I mentioned in that the first episode we did in 109 about my early fascination motivation. And so it's exciting for me to have this framework that really does kind of give us additional depth to this and that these tendencies, which I now see as core expectation framework, is more than just personality. It's about how we can better support each other and to better understand how internal and external expectations kind of move, move us through the world and how we can be more successful in whatever things we care about because we understand this a little bit better. And that's why I need to rename it as the four Core Expectation Framework because it is like their core to how we are and it is a framework for how we kind of address expectations.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:36:03

So that's why I had to rename it for the work that I'm doing with this agency in California because it is part of who we are. So if you find yourself like agreeing with any of this or connecting with who in your world that this reminds you of or how you might apply it, I would love to hear your story. So if you're an obliger who's experienced rebellion or if you're a rebel who found a sweet spot of motivation because you're able to use the formula and able to like align more with identity or give yourself much more choices to find this, I would love to hear about that. Or even if you resonated with the last episode as an up questioner or an upholder, definitely drop me an email at connect37by27.com or get on our mailing list and just respond to one of the emails in the mailing list too. I would love to hear from you. And yes, if you're an obliger, that's your external accountability to reach out and become more connected to this podcast as a resource for you as you move through the world and try to do more around taking care of yourself or self maintenance as we call it and seeing it more as that of how you can maintain yourself so that you can be successful and not drop into rebellion where you have to quit your entire life and go off the grid. I'm glad you are here for this conversation. I value the time we shared together today.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:37:21

Thank you for making time to be here and to continue taking steps towards growth and bringing more ease into your life. I'd love for us to stay connected on Instagram, @shawnapodcasts or @the.grit.show , or there's even a link in bio at @the.grit.show where you can send me an email to let me know what you thought of today's episode. Hearing from you helps to make the effort that goes into producing these episodes worthwhile. After all, you're why I'm here. And since it's been a while since you've heard this, you are the only one of you that this world has got, and that really does mean something. I hope you realize that I'll be back again soon, and I hope you're following along or subscribed so that you'll know and be here too.