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Shawna Rodrigues 0:00

What do you think of when you think of self? Do you think of yourself as the conductor of your own orchestra? That is a fascinating analogy that we discussed end up today with our guest as we look a little closer at internal family systems. A treatment modality, that is also a way to look at how you perceive your inner self. And how you talk to yourself and have internal conversations. It's definitely a conversation we're sticking around for.

Shawna Rodrigues 0:27

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Shawna Rodrigues 1:28

Will Halpin is a psychotherapist and public health social worker, who has over 20 years of experience working in community health settings, and in private practice in Boston. Earlier in his career, he developed programs and a comprehensive curriculum with the Boston Public Health Commission to train healthcare providers, public safety professionals and child welfare workers across Massachusetts on best practices and working with people struggling with crystal meth abuse and dependence. Identifying and safely intervening with those who manufactured it in their homes. Most of his clinical experience has been working with an LGBTQIA+ community and specifically with complex developmental trauma and substance abuse. He has been trained in a variety of treatment modalities to offer a multitude of options when working with survivors of trauma, including internal family systems known as IFS, Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT), and Eye-Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR). He's currently training and studying neurofeedback, that plans to offer it as an additional treatment for trauma survivors at his private practice in Sturbridge, Massachusetts. He also enjoys training new therapists who are learning IFS, and has worked as a program assistant in level one IFS trainings. When he is not at work, you can find him in the mountains, in a lake or in the woods, enjoying whatever outdoor recreation is available in that particular season. He is someone I think very highly of, especially given the depth and breadth of his background. And I'm so pleased we're able to speak with him and more depth today to learn more about internal family systems. Thank you so much for being here today, Will.

Will Halpin 3:05

It's wonderful to be here with you.

Shawna Rodrigues 3:07

I've been very intrigued by internal family systems, the little pieces I hear about it.

Will Halpin 3:12

Yeah.

Shawna Rodrigues 3:13

The first thing that intrigues me is the name internal family systems, because it doesn't seem to fit once I learned about it, how it's connected. So in your opinion, what is internal family systems? Like, how would you boil it down to make sense to someone who's hearing about it for the first time?

Shawna Rodrigues 3:28

So when you think about internal family systems, you know, you have internal, you have family and you have systems, right? So we all have a variety of things going on inside of us all times, right? Because we're humans, we're complex. So, it could be a Saturday, and there's a part of you that's like, Oh, I really want to go to the gym, I should go, be good for me, I need to do this, that or the other, the part it's like, oh, it's been a long week, I just want to lay on the couch. And that part's like come on, just get going, don't waste time. In like just a matter of a few seconds, you had three different experiences inside. So when we think about IFS, so the internal is these internal voices, when I say voices, I'm not talking multiple personalities or things like schizophrenia, but we had internal dialogues all the time. And so the I's internal then F is the word for family. So family, as you imagine, are a variety of people kind of working together in a unit, sometimes, well, sometimes not so well. So in that little example I gave you we had three different experiences in conflict with one another. So F as in family, as in these competing, different voices, different parts, as we say in the model, kind of navigating day to day life. And then systems as they work as a system sometimes harmoniously, sometimes not so harmoniously. And so when a person comes in for therapy, clearly there's oftentimes a disharmonious experience inside that they want to address.

Shawna Rodrigues 4:57

So I think that's the biggest piece of it was discovered by somebody, who did family systems like family therapy and so then you start thinking of family therapy and gets confused, because you're like, what?

Will Halpin 5:06

Yes.

Shawna Rodrigues 5:07

So really, it's more like looking at the way you communicate with the different parts of yourself. And seeing those different parts is more of a family system is more of a group to look together. And that's why it's family system.

Will Halpin 5:18

Right. When I often sit down with books, the first time I talk about IFS as a concept where think about an orchestra, you have the conductor, then you have all the members of the orchestra, right? You have the violins, you have the flutes, you have percussion, you have french horns, you have trumpets, you have oboes, you have trombones, the whole bit. And so the goal of going to orchestra is that they work together to create harmony and melody. So you have a conductor who's sort of guiding that. And so what we want to think about is we want our systems to work like an orchestra, right? Where everyone's attuning to the conductor, following the conductor. And at certain points, certain folks are highlighted, like perhaps there's a point where the violins and violas are prominent, so the conductor guides them up, and then kind of quiets, or kind of softens the French horns or the, the woodwinds or what have you. And so, again, like we're looking at sort of creating a harmonious melody, harmony inside. So again, that's the concept of parts working together well. Attuning, listening to each other, like a healthy family system.

Will Halpin 5:48

So sometimes I might need to go to therapy, because of the fact that drummer just won't stop beating the drum, when maybe I just want to listen to foods a little bit.

Will Halpin 6:36

Exactly. Like people are like, I have anxiety, anxiety, riddles me. So let's get to know your anxiety, right? Your anxiety, how does your anxiety show up? Like, oh, you know, I'm out with friends, or going out to meet new people and have this experience inside, like, they're gonna hate me, they're gonna think I'm this, think I'm that. The anxiety shows up as this voice that is criticizing them and giving them a hard time. Like, okay, so that is a part. That is one of your members of your internal family system, maybe yelling really loudly, or banging the drums, as you say, really, really loud when perhaps what you want is more soft wins. And so yeah, so we're working in therapy to address parts or members of this family system that are operating what we say in an extreme role, like the drum that's beating way too loud and overpowering the woodwinds or overpowering the strings. So,

Shawna Rodrigues 7:33

I don't think a lot of my listeners realize that I do have a background in clinical social work. But there are so many different treatments and modalities to use with young children. So I come to this very openly because I never studied it.

Will Halpin 7:47

Yeah.

Shawna Rodrigues 7:47

And I definitely just heard things from my friends who work in the field. And it's always been intriguing to me.

Will Halpin 7:52

Yeah.

Shawna Rodrigues 7:52

And one of the things that has intrigued me about it is this concept about really, that you hold the different parts of you and you honor them. And I think there's one thing they feel like I've heard about with IFS, which are internal family systems, people call IFS.

Will Halpin 8:07

Right.

Shawna Rodrigues 8:08

So with IFS, this beautiful thing that I love about it that a lot of times with different therapy modalities you're trying to fix and change, and banish and get rid of. And this whole concept of IFS, it's more like embracing to me and honoring was really exciting. Can you talk more about that?

Will Halpin 8:24

Yeah. So one of my trainers told me this, well told our group this when I was learning a few years back about the IFS is not a deficit model. It's a constraint model. What I mean by that is, we often think of therapy, I'm going to therapy because I'm missing something, "something's broken", something's not working, right? This sense of, I'm in a deficit, I'm in a broken place, the therapist is going to "fix me". And what I love about the use of the idea of a constraint model is that constraint is we remove the constraints that inhibit your natural ability to work harmoniously with yourself. So it's this idea of an era social group with like, you know, strengths based on this huge element, resiliency theory, that was such a big part of our training, and certainly what I loved about our field, and it really embraces that, because we're talking about you have these capacities within you, you have the things within you already, and we remove the constraints for optimal functioning.

Shawna Rodrigues 9:24

That is so wonderful. Yeah. So this idea of that constraint, I haven't heard that term. That's wonderful. So it really is about removing the constraints and making somebody optimal rationing optimal life. And that's kind of what this podcast is about. It's about optimal functioning. And that's when people do that.

Will Halpin 9:38

Right, right, right. And it is sort of bringing this idea that we want to get curious about our experience. So often, like you said, we just banish stuff like, oh, I don't want to do that anymore. I don't want to, I don't want to be anxious anymore. I will get rid of it. Certainly I can appreciate the concept that I won't be anxious anymore, but instead of judging or banishing our experience, we turn towards it and we wonder what's going on. So I'm curious, like, if we go back to that anxiety example that I gave where someone has social anxiety, they're going to meet new people. And there's this voice that says, Oh, they're not gonna like me, they're to think this or this or this, if, oh, I shouldn't think that right? Like, stop that, stop that thought, right? There's certainly modalities that talk about things like that. But in this one, which I love as you go, Huh, I wonder what that's about? What's going on that there's this part of me that is talking to me in this way. One of my supervisors says, I want you to fall in love with your parts, which I know sounds so kind of woowoo and kind of strange, but it is this idea of let me understand, let me get to know what's going on. And there may be more to the story. I think about when if you're in a work situation, and someone's getting really frustrated with you, and they're like, ah, and you just keep ignoring them, right? What do you think's gonna happen, they may escalate or if you have a child, right, and they're like, getting upset, the more you probably ignore them, the more they escalate. And it's used to Hey, well, we'll let's figure this out, like what's going on? Let's sit down. Let's take a breath. Like, what's, what's going on here?

Shawna Rodrigues: 11:05

What's behind that?

Will Halpin: 11:06

What's behind this? And if we do that with these parts in our little family system, we learn a bigger story. And as you might imagine, I mean, not always, but when you're working with a kid, or maybe with a colleague at work, when you sit down and say, Okay, let's sort this out. Like what's going on behind this frustration, right? That person make, okay. So they may, they stop, and they're not as like rah, the drums not beating as loud, you ask questions, you get curious, as I say, get curious, not furious. And you may learn a little bit more about what's going on. That person softens, as they feel seen and understood, and things can start to shift.

Will Halpin: 11:06

That's really incredible. In different conversations, I've come to understand that isn't there some way of looking at these different parts of you?

Will Halpin: 11:32

Yes.

Shawna Rodrigues: 11:33

I've heard the term, protectors. Can you talk more about the term in different parts a little bit?

Will Halpin: 11:56

Yeah, so we have kind of general categories. And again, nothing's always perfectly clean. But we have protectors. And in the protector category, there are two kinds of protectors. So we have what are called managers, and firefighters. So managers, you think about a manager. What does a manager do? Like, keep things functioning, right? And that is what a manager does. Our manager parts are getting us through the day. They are organizing parts. There are, you know, get things done parts, there are efficiency parts. And also two that come along with that are people pleasing parts or perfectionistic parts or really strong harsh, critical parts that are tough love coaches that are like get this done. Go, go, go, right? And so those are kind of day to day get you through the things, right? And firefighters operate differently in their protective way. So think about a firefighter does, right? So a firefighter comes to your house when there's a fire, do they not gingerly on the door and say excuse me, I think there's a fire. May I come in?

Shawna Rodrigues: 12:55

They bring axe, hose.

Shawna Rodrigues: 12:55

They do. They break down doors like they burst in and they are like, get fire out. So those protectors operating our lives is like short term solution, right? We're not thinking about the beautiful wallpaper in your front room or there's a fireout, right? So, like,

Shawna Rodrigues: 13:15

Damage, whatever you need to salvage whatever you have to.

Will Halpin: 13:17

Correct. So when we think about this kind of protector, these parts show up in ways of like raging parts that yell and scream or parts that maybe want to use alcohol or get drunk or use substances like drugs. And they're more subtle firefighters too, that are about just kind of taking things out, right? So like sleepy parts, or if you talk about dissociation, which is a symptom, people experience lot of trauma, when it's too much they start to get soupy and kind of like fade out or sort of feel depersonalized. So these protector parts, both these firefighters, these managers are typically protecting what are called exiles and exiles in the family system are typically parts that contain trauma or original burdens, as we like to say or wounds.

Shawna Rodrigues: 14:09

Original burdens. I don't think I've heard that term before.

Will Halpin: 14:12

Our burdens. I think that's the term more, but like, early on a lot of like early childhood wounding, you know, different kinds of traumas that people go through. And these exiles carry that so they are the ones that carry the heat and the pain of the system, right and so these protectors rally to exile, these exiles or keep them at bay. So if you think about if there's an exile or a young part of you, that feels like I'm unworthy, I'm a failure. I'm not good enough. There may be a manager that's like we're going to be perfectionistic to keep that feeling that they're right so they're all about being perfectionist in their work life and their family life. Obviously people with perfectionism can develop issues with anxiety, right? So, you know that perfectionistic part is keeping that exile that carries the sense of worthlessness and not good enough at bay. And when the managers aren't doing a sufficient enough job at keeping that pain at bay, so that perfectionistic part is going, going, going. But that feeling of like, I'm not worthy, or I'm worthless, is just so profound, that, that's when the firefighters are like, okay, like, we're going to bust down the doors, and we're going to knock this out, we're going to go drink a six pack of beer tonight, or we're going to, you know, get sleepy and just avoid and fall asleep and like, just check out from the world, or we're going to get angry and like punching wall, or we're gonna drive really fast and road rage or something. So that's kind of,

Shawna Rodrigues: 14:36

started fighting my partner in the house,

Will Halpin: 15:45

yeah, any of that stuff, right? So that's how they sort of can interact, the different parts.

Shawna Rodrigues: 15:51

So, mostly, it's protectors and exiles, and those are the primary part?

Will Halpin: 15:55

Right. So the concept itself is really important here. So if you think about my example, with the orchestra, right? We have the conductor, right? When I talk to folks about parts in IFS, I like into these protectors, and these exiles is different members of the orchestra, like the violins, the flutes and such. And the self is the conductor, like that is the orienting force that parts can rally toward in an optimally functioning system, where they attune to the conductor and the conductor guides them. Typically, when I'm working with folks, you know, helping them develop, to get in touch with self, and kind of find the quality of self. So it's sort of this sense of like calmness, or you're sort of in this place of like, they call it Zen, you can be sort of in this quiet, focused, sort of courageous, compassionate, curious place that allows you to look at your parts and engage with them with like that sort of calm experience that I want to know. Having compassion, having this sense of just openness.

Shawna Rodrigues: 17:05

This orchestra analogy is fabulous. Because I almost feel like in our lives, you feel like you're in the audience, just watching this orchestra doing whatever they're gonna do, you have no control over it, or you're in the orchestra, trying to figure out which part you're supposed to be playing at what time and instead of actually being like no my role as a conductor. And when you hear about things, because we hear about meditation and mindfulness in different ways of trying to get out and be more of the observer, and, you know, things. Understanding that is our role that we have these parts of we're supposed to be the one that has actually been charging, acknowledging and leading these and seeing these and holding them all at once. I love it. That's absolutely brilliant.

Will Halpin: 17:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that concept is constrained model to help remove constraints to access self. And one of the core beliefs is that everyone has a self. Certain folks, sure, it may take a little bit more digging to get there. But we all have this capacity for self. And I think even I mean, the founder of the model did Schwartz talk. I mean, a lot of his foundational work, he worked with eating disorders, as well as in families around that. And some of his clients who were suffering severely from like anorexia and such like that, like, you know, in hospitals monitored and everything, we're able to access self, right? So folks who have them had the most significant challenges are able to get to that, that is the goal in therapeutic work. And that may take a good amount of time, it may be quicker or faster. But the idea is helping clients are helping you and as a therapist, you also need to do your own work. But like getting in touch with those qualities of self, they call them the eight C's. So we have calmness, curiosity, clarity, compassion, confidence, courage, creativity, and connectedness. When you think about what those qualities embody, right, when you embody that, like that's sort of the essence of self, this sense of an entity of being that can be an observer in what place to orient like the conductor of this orchestra. But it's also ever present as well as like an orienting force. Our goal in the work is to help build or help clients remove the constraints to get in touch with these qualities, because it is from these qualities that we start to engage these parts, right? And I've been your example of using the drum beating is a great one, because again, when clients come to us, right like, the drums have taken over the orchestra, there's not a conductor, the conductor is not present, or that moment or is overtaken by the drumbeat of anxiety or depression or anger. And so helping clients access, get in touch, embody, get in touch with those qualities of self removed those constraints, then the conductor can attune to that drum and start to build that connection. So if you think about when a conductor engages with a member, right, it's very animated. The conductor locks eyes with that person. It's like, fast, fast, slow, slow, like kind of guides the vibe. And so as you get more in touch with those eight C's or get a critical mass, as they say, of those qualities, then there's an amazing experience of flow, where you can just feel it in the room, like the field just sort of shifts. And the client goes, Oh, I see how hard that anxiety part is working. Or I really want to know more, like, what is this trying to do for me, right? Like, we come from those places, it's a softer, it's an open place, and there's a feeling of flow, and it's less jagged, it's less rough. And from there, folks can get to understand and work with these parts in conceptually, in this work, right, we often are dealing with protectors first, those are the ones who often show up. I mean, certainly exiles, you can get there too. But you know, as you work with these protectors, and you build a relationship with them. So you're like, how long have you been doing this for me? When did you start doing this for me? Why? What was going on in my life that you started to do this journey?

Shawna Rodrigues: 21:13

Made this, yeah, made this necessary.

Will Halpin: 21:18

Right. And as you get to know these parts, so often, I like to joke with my clients, it's like, these protectors, these managers just want to become employee of the month, they wonder about the cash register, right? So it's like, Finally, so and this has been my experience, even my own work, my parts is these protectors, like, Thank you, you finally see me like, you just yell at me, you get mad at me when I come at you and say, Oh, the people that that you're gonna meet, they're not gonna like you, they're gonna think you're this, they think you're that. You've probably seen what I've been trying to do, because all this time the other parts are like, Oh, go away, right? Other parts fight. That's the, these fights can happen in families, right? You know, there's a part that starts saying, oh, you can't do this, you shouldn't, you know, or part that says, oh, you know, people think this that or the other. There's a part of you that goes, Oh, shut up. Why stop talking that way? Right? These, these fights, right? So finally, when self attunes to these parts, and these other parts of pushing them out, they're like, you're seeing me? You're appreciating me, you're seeing me?

Shawna Rodrigues: 22:13

You're letting them be employee of the month. And why they can't be employee of the month with that specific behavior.

Will Halpin: 22:19

Well, it's funny, if you go at it with an agenda, my experience is they just kind of pushed back, right? They just say, well, this is why I have to do this, like, come on. But when you work with them, and you listen, and you hear them and you attune to them, and you start to notice them in your day to day, right? So as you build this awareness, you go through days of, Oh, wait, there's that part that likes to say, be careful, they will think this, they will think that like, Oh, there you are, I remember what you do. And you take that one moment and notice, then that part softens a little bit and may start to be a little quieter. And as the part feels more tuned and listen to, then you're like, What are you protecting me from?

Shawna Rodrigues: 22:57

Yeah.

Will Halpin: 22:59

And then that protector can be or that manager can be, well, I don't want you to be absolutely embarrassed. That just full of shame. And it's like, oh, okay, so you're trying to protect me from shame and embarrassment? Is there a part that carries some of those burdens that you're protecting? And, you know, again, like maybe more nuanced than that, but then you may find yourself getting in touch, or they're like, there's an exile who carries stories of being burdened by shame or embarrassment, that is galvanized this manager into its job. But again, it's a negotiation, we just don't go, Oh, great. Thanks for letting me know about this exile, can I go? The manager is like, wait a second, I've been protecting this exile for years. I need to build trust. My little thumb equation that I tell clients is trust is consistency and behavior over time. So as you work with these protectors, and you get to that relationship, eventually they will step back, and they will let you work with that exile and help attune just with all those same eight C's and you listen and you attune to this exile. And that's where burdens can start to be lifted, we can start to shift the potency of the burdens carried by that exile part.

Shawna Rodrigues: 24:17

That's amazing. That makes like a big difference than it sounds like, this is a element of human condition resonating with all of us in different ways. We all have these mechanisms. And it just goes to extreme levels that become hard to function, challenges that become detrimental to our lives.

Will Halpin: 24:38

Right. And of course, like, it sounds so nice when I describe it that way, but I mean, it may take weeks or months to get there but it's pretty powerful when you can get to those places. So these exiles, and this is not always the case, but you know, frequently they're from younger times of our lives, younger parts of us. I have little Wills, I have clients who have you know, little versions of themselves who are like riddled with shame or riddled with fear from various things that have happened. And it becomes this sort of loving, tender relational experience just like that protector wanted to be seen and validated and fallen in love with, as my supervisor says around like, you see me, give me employee of the month that this exile is like you can finally relate to this little vulnerable part. And just like a parent tending to their child when they have a nightmare or who scuffed their knee, like, come here, I got you, you like, what happened today, like talk to me about it. It becomes this very relationally healing experience. So it's, again, that flow state when people are in that and you watch them, and they intuitively know what to do oftentimes with these clients. But what needs to happen now, I know you just want a hug, will they accept it? Yeah. All right, I need to do this. I need to do that. Like when clients are in that state of flow. I mean, again, like their self is in charge, I'm not doing anything. I'm kind of, I'm just a witness, right? And it's, again, it speaks to that concept of the constraint model. But yeah.

Shawna Rodrigues: 26:06

Sounds very powerful.

Will Halpin: 26:08

Yeah, I like to say to that, you know, when you're dealing with these different parts, right, I feel like they say, either really trying to help you or they need help from you, right? So those exiles, the ones who are like, help me, attend to me, like a child crawling into their parents bed at night with a nightmare, right? Or these protectors, like they said, We're trying to help. Can you see what I'm trying to do? Can you see why? And when you work with these exile parts, these protectors are watching and you say, Hey, was that, you know, that part that use critical statements to you, is that person watching you tend to this one? Yeah. How are they reacting? You know? And what often or what can happen in this case, as these protectors don't feel the need to be extreme, right? Because sometimes these managers are forced into a role, a favorite protector part that I feel like is common in all of us. I know, I certainly have had my own, I call it inner critics or critic parts. This is anecdotal. This is not in any chance research players. I've worked with my clients over the years who, with their inner critics, so often, they're like, I'm yelling, and I'm harsh. I'm tough love coaching you because no one's, you're not listening to me, or I have to be this extreme. And when you get to know these protectors like this, kind of understand why they do, you can ask them like, well, you know, what do you like about your job? Actually, I get tired, like, I don't like yelling at you. I really don't. I would rather just be like a motivational cheerleader, you know. And again, it's funny, I've actually heard that from a number of clients where these critics are like, I really don't want to yell at you, I want to be a cheerleader, I don't want to bang the drums really loud, I want to bang the drums in a way that supports the rest of the orchestra, right? So as you heal these exiles, these managers or even these firefighters can be in a more moderated role. Right? You might think, Well, gosh, how is like using drugs or alcohol or getting blackout drunk, how does that part have a place, right? But that part's like, I just want to stop the pain. I want you to just get away from the hurt. I don't want you to feel it, right?

Shawna Rodrigues: 28:11

Yeah.

Will Halpin: 28:11

And there are great ways to do that. There are great ways to take a break from pain, or just to take a break, right? I'm gonna go to this beach, I'm gonna go on this hike in the mountains, or I'm gonna go and listen to music in a bathtub with bubbles and candles, right? There are great ways to take breaks, they're great ways to get away.

Shawna Rodrigues: 28:29

Yeah, but when you're trying to protect an exile that you're trying to hide away, nothing else will do it, no one else will do it. A bathtub with bubbles is not going to gonna keep that exile. So it makes sense that you need something that's significant that a firefighter just cut that off and make sure that there's enough.

Will Halpin: 28:48

Right. Because those exiles are so burned, they're just screaming in pain, right. And they're so loud, these protectors, like I've got to double down like, bubble baths ain't gonna cut it, it's a six pack of beer, or you know, a liter of vodka or something. So as we hopefully can help those exiles a burden. There's a whole process with that, where you witness them, and you help them release these burdens in this relational way. Right? That, hopefully, again, and what can happen is these managers can soften, right? Critics become cheerleaders or parts that want to fall asleep, just find other ways to take breaks or perfectionistic parts. Learn how to motivate us to a certain point and then say, Okay, that's good enough, right. So, you know,

Shawna Rodrigues: 29:34

other ways that serve the purpose once they realize what purpose we're trying to serve, like what they're trying to do. There's other ways to do it. Yeah, that's amazing. And it makes sense why this is really taken off, because how long have you been connected to this?

Will Halpin: 29:46

I mean, it's been around Gosh, I wish I could give the time but I know it's been around since the 90s. And you have to quote me on that, but I was trained in 2018. So what, four years. But I feel like it's really changed the way I interact with clients. With the way I think about, "mental health diagnoses", right? The medicalization of it all. And it's really just one of models that's completely shifted the way I think about clinical therapy.

Shawna Rodrigues: 30:15

Everyone I know who've done stuff by the interview impacted them. And they've been very passionate about it and the way they see things, and I think it is a desire to be like, Oh, my gosh, things make sense now, instead of having to pathologize everything, and everything being an issue of like, oh my gosh, like things make sense. And there's a way that I can accept and see myself in a way that's really healthy and really makes everybody makes sense. Everyone has those parts. And how strong those protectors get and how urgent their responses get, and how dangerous the responses get to be able to function and do the things in life you want to do and how debilitating they get. So you can function is what the question becomes. So that's why it's amazing to have this way of everyone be able to look at that spectrum, and how they can support themselves. So with IFS, I know there's a waitlist to even be trained in it. And it's probably hard to get supports in it. But there's like a website that people can look.

Will Halpin: 31:07

Yeah, yeah, the IFS Institute, they just Google, IFS Institute. That is their main page, they have all sorts of resources, articles, videos, the original founder, Dr. Dick Schwartz, has a number of videos of him practicing the model and showing him working with protectors and exiles and helping clients get in touch with self. And certainly trainings, for therapists, there's also a movement to train folks who are not therapists too and there are, I was at a conference in IFS back in 2019. And they were talking about this model they've been bringing to China, and they've been working on training, just folks who are interested in helping, right? Like lay folks, non professionals and helping people and it's rigorous. That's a lot of work on yourself. I mean, a big part of IFS is also as a therapist doing your own work. Because if you're not in a place of curiosity, compassion, and you're operating from a part, right, you're going to impact the client's ability to get in touch with those things. Right? You know, it's great that the movement in this is trying to say, look, there's, there's waitlist, there's all this, but we want to give more people access to this. I can't speak comprehensively to that. What they're doing, but I know what's going on. I know people who are dieticians, or nutritionists or physical therapists who are getting trained in this because not only as you very well know, parts don't just show up as anxiety or depression or anger or what have you. They can show up in really big physical symptoms, right. You know, we know that mind, body, so interconnected, right? So people are like, I have a pain in my shoulder that will not go away and manipulating it through physical therapy in and of itself does not stop it. We get to know the part that is using the pain in the shoulder or the part that's in there. Let's get to know that pain. Let's go toward it, right? Let's be curious. So again, therapists who have that sort of construct, it's not just bone broken bone, fixed muscle, loosened muscle, tighten, right? It's not so black and white. Parts may use the body to signal stuff, right?

Shawna Rodrigues: 31:07

Yeah.

Will Halpin: 31:12

They're like, Okay, I'm guarding you against danger, or I'm hurting you against threat, right? So the part tightens. And anyway, I'm getting off on a tangent. But again, just this concept of more folks beyond just therapists and psychologists, getting trained is something that the IFS Institute is working towards. And like I said, I wish I could speak more to what they're doing in China. It's been a while since I've looked at what they're doing. But again, it's a comprehensive way of giving this to folks so they can just keep poor people healed.

Shawna Rodrigues: 33:51

Yeah, you know, and again, my passion for folks listening but my passion is in early childhood mental health and as you're saying is we always look at kids and looked at the, what's behind the behavior, is like the whole thing with kids and so like we go and like they get a foster mom I know who has a child that's you know, spreading poop across the walls after visits with mom and me thinking about you know, the tech departs and how those things you go in with working with young kids even like how it all integrates. I love how things integrate. So yeah, it has me thinking about all those things.

Will Halpin: 34:21

Yeah. And there's, there's whole trainings on working with children, right. All these little kids middle, middle childhood, teenagers, right. There's all and again, I can't speak to that because I don't work with that population. I work with adults, but, yeah,

Shawna Rodrigues: 34:33

there's lots to it. And I got too much to my plate to get to. I'm interested in that, but I love it. Is there any like books that you've read around it that you would recommend or that you can think of, especially for somebody who's not super familiar.

Will Halpin: 34:46

Okay, so there's a book called Self-Therapy. I know, it sounds kind of generic, and I believe the author's name is Jay Earley. J-A-Y E-A-R-L-E-Y. And what I like about this book is it self guided IFS.

Shawna Rodrigues: 34:53

Really?

Shawna Rodrigues: 34:54

Yeah. And I think it's a, I've recommended it to most of my clients. So who are like eager to learn more, it helps you sort of, introduces them to the language, introduces them to the parts, and the names and sort of carries them through some experiential exercises that kind of wet the appetite or gives them a chance to practice because again, it's the idea of it is, you do it in sessions with clients, but hopefully on their own, right? They're like walking through their day like, oh, I'm so mad at myself. Oh, wait. I just heard that voice that said that to me. I wonder what that's about, right? So teaching clients to do their own parts work, right? Empowering them to do the work on their own.

Shawna Rodrigues: 35:45

That's amazing. I should have known you by that book but I love you. And before I put that in the show notes, if you hook up, get a link to the notes, so they can definitely find that book and be able to access it.

Will Halpin: 35:55

There's another one too, because there is IFS therapy for couples, right? Like we're,

Shawna Rodrigues: 36:00

nice,

Will Halpin: 35:56

yeah, IFIO, it's called You Are The One You've Been Waiting For. It helps clients learn towards tending to their own parts and not expecting their partner to be the primary source of healing those parts, right? Yeah, so and I'm not saying that we don't need partners, and they can't help us, right? But,

Shawna Rodrigues: 36:23

yeah, but that concept of recognizing that you can't expect that from other human all stricken with disappointment in them and in yourself and their relationships going to buy it.

Will Halpin: 36:32

Or it becomes a primary source, right? In the book that uses example, called the Magic Kitchen. So this is not an original thing. This is what I read, where this idea that if you have a kitchen, where you make standard meals, like you have good home cooked meals, right? Like your parts have a place that they can always eat out, right? They always have a place to go. And when you have a partner like oh, there's a different cuisine down the street, well, I can enjoy Thai food or I can enjoy, you know, southern home cooking, or I can enjoy seafood, right? But if that kitchen is closed, they aren't going to start, right? They can go back home and they have meatloaf and potatoes or whatever, they have that primary source where you can attend to your own parts. So yeah, it's, You're The One You've Been Waiting For.

Shawna Rodrigues: 37:18

I'll put that in the show notes as well. I love it. This has been very valuable. Thank you so much. I think it's been great for our listeners to hear more about internal family systems and how it's a beneficial theory way of looking at things and variables to look more into getting resources around it if it is intriguing to them. So along these lines, we always talk about self care. In our episodes. So we have our little self care spotlight. So what do you do for self care, Will?

Will Halpin: 37:44

Well, I do a variety of things for self care. So I really love lifting weights. So I lift weights, I'm an aficionado of CrossFit. What can I say? So I go and move heavy weights, I learn how to practice technical lifts, because it's really enjoyable. I will go to a mountain and go hiking, I'll go for a walk in the woods, I'll go for a swim in the lake. Those are like yeah, anything in nature. Just put me in nature in one shape, way, shape, or form, even just like standing in a park. That works. So those are my main places for self care.

Shawna Rodrigues: 38:21

So you love the outdoors. And you love being outside because that's really nourishing and getting back to you then to be doing those things.

Will Halpin: 38:30

Yes, that is my number one go to and every time it works, I've learned that one of my favorite things to do, I recently started doing was going camping by myself. So I will go on a Saturday or Friday and know, again, my partner like the information where I'm at so people know where I am. But then I disappear for two days. And I'm on my own in the woods, and I'm hiking by myself, I'm cooking meals by myself, I'm sitting by the fire by myself. And it's a really good chance for me to just to be quiet and be in nature. You know, a check in with my own parts, spend time with my parts and that sort of uninterrupted, no stimulus place. So,

Shawna Rodrigues: 39:10

that's amazing. And as you may know, because you might have listened to the show before, I don't know, maybe, I also give all of my guests a copy of one of the Color of Grit coloring books to add to their self care repertoire.

Will Halpin: 39:25

Yeah.

Shawna Rodrigues: 39:25

So would you enjoy a copy of the Color of Grits', Vintage Mermaid and Magnificent Ocean? Or You've Got This which is a collection of quotes that you get to color in. Which would you prefer?

Will Halpin: 39:35

I think I'm gonna go with the quotes.

Shawna Rodrigues: 39:38

Wonderful. We will make sure to get you a copy of that.

Will Halpin: 39:41

Yes.

Shawna Rodrigues: 39:41

Thank you. And so then the other thing that we do at the end of our episode, which we call kind of grit wit, is giving a takeaway for everyone something that they could walk away from this episode, and be able to kind of apply and take forward. So what would be an exercise or something folks can take away from this that they can do?

Will Halpin: 39:58

Yeah, I'll pull up my little phrase I love to use a lot. Get curious not furious. So when you're going through your day, and you have this experience, right? Like you get flooded with anxiety or you get like this critical voice saying, Oh, you're this, you're that, I invite you instead of saying, Oh, I hate when I think that way or I hate getting anxious. I invite you to instead not get furious and that get curious. So take a moment, it may take a little bit of a moment because you may be having feel overtaken. But as soon as you get a little space from that say, Hmm, I wonder what that was about? Start to get curious about the part of you that was trying to tell you something was trying to help you probably in some way. Although it feels a little dubious at the moment.

Shawna Rodrigues: 40:46

Yes. And I love the term protector. So if you're stuck, and like why did I get like that? How is that trying to protect me in some way? Like, how was that helpful in some way? That I would have that strong of a reaction to that, like, how could that be helpful?

Will Halpin: 41:00

Yeah. Right. Like I said, Get curious, not furious. It could be a protector. It could be an exile crying out for attention or help, right, like a little one saying, I feel so worthless.

Shawna Rodrigues: 41:11

Yeah.

Will Halpin: 41:11

Right. So yeah, so get curious about it, don't push it away, don't get judgmental, don't get critical. Try to be curious. Now if you are judgmental, critical, that is another part and that is okay. You cannot find spaciousness to, to not be critical, then get curious about your judgmental part. Get curious about the critical part of you that wants to just get rid of that other one being a little meta, I guess.

Shawna Rodrigues: 41:39

Yeah. Another setback. Alright, so we'll go with for the next two solid days. So whenever you're looking at this, do a mental note for the next two solid days to kind of evaluate for yourself if each time you start to respond to something and then check in with yourself in two days and say, have I been doing that for the last two days? So when you're listening to this, do a mental marker of two days from now to see if you've managed to actually remember to stop and be curious when those things happen. Give yourself another marker to try and stop and be curious. Not furious.

Will Halpin: 42:10

Curious, not furious.

Shawna Rodrigues: 42:12

I like it. I very much like it. And we'll have it in the show notes, those books that you can check those out. And so people want to be able to connect with you. I know that you are in private practice and aren't open to clients right now. Because you're very full, right? So if people do want to connect with you, what is the way that they can connect with you? Your website?

Will Halpin: 42:32

Sure. My guess is my website, which is willhalpin.com. I am a therapist, I am practicing in Massachusetts and Connecticut. So that does live in me too. And it's probably the best way to find me.

Shawna Rodrigues: 42:43

So people can look on your website, willhalpin.com. And we'll have that in the notes as well. And that's the way to reach out to you, the best place we'll also have in the show notes, the IFS website is a great place to find more information about them and their resources and they're nationwide.

Will Halpin: 43:00

Yeah.

Shawna Rodrigues: 43:00

And also international. So there should be resources that mentioned China. So there should be resources, wherever you are listening to this to possibly look into those resources to that website. So it's probably if you're really curious, the best place for you guys to dig in and learn more about that.

Will Halpin: 43:14

I highly encourage that. Yes.

Shawna Rodrigues: 43:15

Yes. Thank you so much. It's been so valuable. I really value your time and I appreciate you chatting with us.

Will Halpin: 43:20

It's been such a joy chatting with you, Shawna, as always.

Shawna Rodrigues: 43:23

As always. Wonderful. And for all of you listening. Thank you so much for being here today.

Shawna Rodrigues: 43:29

Just a reminder, your self care is very important. And we do have samples of those coloring pages. You can grab them off of our website, thegritshow.com. Before I let you go one last reminder, you are the only one of you that this world has got and that means something.